A Drum Editor niggle

GWJ · Post by **GWJ** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:52 am

Hi

Does anyone know if it's possible to add (and be able to save with project) a note name list in the Drum Editor, specifically for the Plugsound VI's I use. I know that by selecting, e.g. 'patch 1' at 'default patch' enables me to type a note name, but alas, not save it with the project. The patch list present at 'default patch' doesn't see the PS patches. (this doesn't concern me so much)
I've read the manual, even tried MIDI device groups - no joy. I know about Unisyn and Cherrypicker, but figure there must be a more efficient way to arrive at this basic - notwithstanding the MOTU manual statement, ' The Drum Editor environment is much easier to work with when note names are present' - I'll say!
I'm not looking to set up a hyper efficient environment for working with others etc. as I'm a solo writer. Merely a tidy, reasonably free flowing work arena for applying my past experience as a session drummer into the Drum Editor environment - to help the songs along.

Cheers

A footnote:
Seems that I'm communicating to the forum with problems, gripes etc with DP at the moment, but I want to say that before investing in my setup I researched many platforms, combinations of soft and hardware etc for half a year or so and without doubt DP was the way more attractive cornerstone, both functionally and aesthetically.

...and those aesthetics would be greatly enhanced if the Drum Editor would save names for notes....

MT · Post by MT » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:14 am

And, if notes wouldn't just 'disappear' from it. Sorry, couldn't resist. (UTSF if you're not sure to what I'm referring).

slippedout · Post by **slippedout** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:55 pm

I'm not familiar with "Plugsound VI" but I have a similar situation with a hardware synth. It does not have any patches in DP or CoreMIDI, so I used CherryPicker to get my patch lists showing up in DP, but not drum kits with instrument names.

In the Drum Editor, since it uses note names for the individual instruments, I had to use MIDI Device Groups, and the drum kit presets. For proper setup see the DP 4.5 manual page 165 (MIDI Device Groups) and pages 324-325 (Drum Editor drum kit presets). Basically, you will have to set up a device group, add notes to a drum kit, rename the notes, and save the kit. The kit gets saved with the MIDI Device Group you created.

The process is not that bad, really. It does get tedious typing in all the instrument names, especially if there are multiple "kits" or collections on your device (my synth has 20 different kits). I did all the work in a new document and saved it as a template. So a new document opens every time with all of my drum kits with all the instrument names all folded neatly in the Drum Editor ready for action.

ps. RE: Unisyn. Only use it if there is a Profile on MOTU's list for your device, otherwise it is useless.

GWJ · Post by **GWJ** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:10 am

Thanks S.O.

Your suggestion won't work for me as the Plugsound Drum&Perc VI provides whole mapped kits etc for each bank. I want to be able to utilise this and not assign individual sounds (kick, snare etc) to each instance of it - changing those individual sounds would be a nightmare from a screen real estate point of view and not the best use of the Plugsound VI features.

Check out http://www.plugsound.com/ if you're interested to know more about their VIs.

All I need is to be able to type some text(in the note list for Drum Editor), the same way you would name a Track, e.g., and have it save with the project. Just basic word processing really.

All best

G4 15"Powerbook/1.67GHz/2GRam. M-Audio FireWire Solo.
Edirol PCR-30. DP4.61. MX4v2. USB PS 1,2+3. RODE NT1000

Guitar Gaz · Post by **Guitar Gaz** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:47 am

Ho ho ho - I've tried and given up as it doesn't work in a usable fashion for me. I'm used to Opcode Vision where you could nominate a Note Name List for a MIDI instrument (say an Alesis SR16) with my own drum set layout (which is different from the standard ones). Then when you went into Graphical Editor for that instrument - the keyboard roll showed note names for those keys - say Snare 1 or Snare 2.

You can do something like this in the Drum Editor but it is fiddly and ultimately I can't stand using this Edit screen - so I give it a miss.

slippedout · Post by **slippedout** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:57 pm

I checked the link to PS, but couldn't find any specific information of how the sounds are organized. When you say: "...Plugsound Drum&Perc VI provides whole mapped kits etc for each bank," is that similar to a mapped drum kit on a patch? In other words, when you select a patch or program in PS are all of the keys/notes different instruments? Or am I not getting it?

If they are mapped patches, and you need to change the names of the notes, then you must use Device Groups together with the Drum Editor. (of course, if CoreMIDI had the correct device and patch lists, including drum kits, for your device then none of this is necessary; eg.: Roland MC-505)

One item I didn't mention in my previous post is: for the Drum Track Output you must select the correct MIDI Device Group you created with the correct patch names and not the MIDI instrument and channel, or else you get the generic note names.

I hope I am not confusing the matter.

GWJ · Post by **GWJ** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:43 pm

slippedout wrote:One item I didn't mention in my previous post is: for the Drum Track Output you must select the correct MIDI Device Group you created with the correct patch names and not the MIDI instrument and channel, or else you get the generic note names.

I hope I am not confusing the matter.

No confusion.

THANK YOU S.O.! That's it. All working. I wasn't outputing the track to the MIDI Device Group. I still have to click on the device group at 'output' again, after opening the Drum Editor, to have the names show up, but a small price to pay for some neatness in my visual life. YOU'RE A STAR!

I meant exactly that with regards mapped kits - the PS VIs have, amonst other things 'sorted elements' - sample upon sample of e.g. individual hihat hits placed in banks.

I appreciate you checking out the USB site on my behalf, but only mentioned it in case you might be interested to know more for yourself.

I think the VIs from the Plugsound range are great aids to me in producing my songs and also, of course, impeccably tidy!

Cheers, I owe you one.

slippedout · Post by **slippedout** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:39 pm

I am glad that helped. Just take note that you can use different kits with different Device Groups. What I did was create a Device Group and name it the same name as the patch in my synth. Then created the drum kit in the Drum Editor with same name as well. So, I select the Device Group "D01 Techno Set", then select the drum kit "D01 Techno Set", and all the instruments are listed correctly.

The reason I mention it is because you can select, for example, MIDI Device Group "D01 Techno Set" then choose drum kit "D02 Industrial". The "D02 Industrial" instrument names will appear in the list, and not correspond with the proper notes being played on the synth, because it is set to "D01 Techno Set."

It is an administrative thing. Once you get working with all of this in the Drum Editor it will all make sense. The hardest part is typing in all of those instruments, but I think the reward is worth it.

bradycline · Post by **bradycline** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:52 pm

Ok -- so this technique is great. Not so elegant, but does what I need! Thanks. Two questions related to this:

First, Clippings:
I thought I would create a single DP clipping containing both a drum instrument track and MIDI track (assigned to the "drum MIDI device group"). When I add the clipping, however, it adds "copy" to the track names. This messes up the routing to the device group by creating a new identically named device group -- before you know it you have three device groups and you are trying to figure out which one is which -- delete the wrong one and there goes all that hard work typing in those names. I looked at the actual clipping file hoping it would be simple XML -- nope. I am now guessing it is just following the OS X convention for making copies of files. Guess the easy solution is not to use the clippings and assign inputs/outputs manually.

Second, patch name menu:
With this method, is there a way to utilize the drum "name" menu (little menu to the right of the drum pitch name in the drum editor). The manual (p.321) doesn't explain this well enough for me to figure it out with my GM keyboard, let alone VIs.

(Or just forget all of this, and I'll pay for that DP5 upgrade that can surely get patch names from VIs like Logic and others already do. Sorry, I'm feeling pessimistic about what will be missing in this upgrade -- I'd gladly trade my freeware-esque NanoSampler for basic functionality like this.)

Thanks!
BC

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:30 pm

bradycline, that's a great avatar picture. It explains so much about the problems we have with DP.

Shooshie