New IK Multimedia CSR (Classic Studio Reverb) plug...

[James Steele]

Anybody hear this yet?

http://www.classikstudioreverb.com/Main.html?prod-CSR

It uses a dongle proprietary to IK Multimedia... not the iLok. I wanted to hear a demo, but you have to have their dongle before you can run the demo. Sounds like it might be decent... they make some pretty strong claims.

[MT]

Looks very interesting. I bought the overpriced T-Racks suite a few years ago and have never thought that it lived up to the marketing hype. If they would price their stuff more reasonably, maybe. Hell, are four non-DSP reverbs worth the price of a UAD-1 Project Pack?

Edit: Hey, James, where does it talk about a dongle? I couldn't find that info on their site. If that's the case, they sure need to make it more obvious. Not listed with the requirements...

[Resonant Alien]

Saw this too - was debating whether to get this or WaveArts Masterverb. Even though the CSR stuff seems "cooler", the WaveArts verb is really really good and low on CPU - it's only $199 (tried the demo).

Nomad Factory also makes a $179 verb that is an emulation of "Classic 80s digital reverbs"......I can't decide if that is a good thing or a bad thing

[MT]

Alien, what did you think of the UAD-1 140 verb?

[pcm]

I own a couple of Lexicon 300 reverbs. They're expensive, well over 2k used. I've had them for over ten years (I run a pro room). During this time, I have checked out all of the plugin verbs. Compared to the Lexicons, not one of them come even remotely close. I also own a couple of Pro Tools HD systems, and of course have checked out the offerings there. Same deal.

Yes, of course there is a huge price difference, but that is not my point. My point is just that (hardware) reverbs very complex boxes, and only a very few companies make really good sounding ones, and that on the plugin front, they ain't there yet. Hype aside. I'm not saying to not buy them (though I certainly wouldn't myself), but that one should not allow oneself to be fooled that they are getting a "world-class" reverb in a plugin. I'm not sure why, but that seems to be the case.

[David Polich]

Well the i-lok thing kills it for me.

I disagree with the earlier post that T-Racks is a disappointment. I use it constantly and I think it's great. You just have to have a fair amount of experience with compressors, limiters and eq's, T-racks isn't really an instant gratification plug.

Also have to strongly disagree with the statement that you can't get a world-class reverb with a plug-in. I've had enough experience with all kinds of hardware reverb units including the Lexicons and I'd say that with convolution reverbs like Wizooverb or Altiverb you can indeed get the Lexicon sound no problem. Yes, there is a difference but for me it's small enough to be negligible. But that's me - I guess in my world, "close enough" really is "close enough".

I also use Waves Trueverb and Renaissance Reverb a lot - I use whatever I have. Even a "cheap-o" sounding reverb like the MOTU reverb plug-in can be effective in certain situations. Frankly, a lot of how "good" a reverb sounds is simply how much the end user knows about parameters like damping, decay time, high-pass and low-pass filters, pre-delay, diffusion, early reflections, and reverb equalization.

[MT]

You just have to have a fair amount of experience with compressors, limiters and eq's, T-racks isn't really an instant gratification plug.

Who said anything about instant gratification? I wasn't knocking T-Racks on the grounds of "not being easy enough". IMO, for the price, the UAD-1's a much better investment.

MT

[James Steele]

Edit: Hey, James, where does it talk about a dongle? I couldn't find that info on their site. If that's the case, they sure need to make it more obvious. Not listed with the requirements...

Sorry 'bout that. Their site is using HTML FRAMES, so it's hard to link directly there. Go the the URL in my original message above:


Then click their "DOWNLOAD" link (in grey on the black horizontal strip near the top of the page) and you'll be taken to a page that will include this notice:

In order to use the Classik Studio Reverb demo, you must own a Syncrosoft USB Key.
These are included with several software programs as well as available individually at your local music store and in our online store.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A SYNCROSOFT USB KEY YOU CAN NOT RUN THE CSR DEMO.

That's making it pretty hard to TRY their product unless you already have IK Multimedia's key. Also note that this is NOT iLok. Oh but that it were as it would be much easier for everyone if they used something a bit more standard than their own dongle. Elsewhere on the site the show a picture of this USB dongle... it's red and reads "IK Multimedia" on it. Totally proprietary.... one more thing to stick in a hub. But basically if you want to hear their demo, you have to buy this dongle for $19 and if you don't like the reverb and decide not to buy it, you're stuck with a dongle you don't need. So it's like paying $20 for the privilege of a demo. There's got to be a better way. Guess they didn't want to pay PACE to license iLok.

[Frodo]

Syncrosoft is having serious problems right now with their software not reading their keys properly. Also, it's VERY SLOW.

Seems bizarre to limit the demo to those who have a Syncrosoft key..

But, I have the CSR which shipped with Vitous Philharmonik. It's a processor HOG even with high buffer settings. Maybe the reverb as an isolated plugin works better.

Comparing high-end vintage hardware anything to software versions of the same is not *entirely* fair. Part of it is a matter of taste and what you're used to hearing. Part of it is weighing the differences in the results with the differences in prices with each. I think both software and hardware processors have their places, but something like CSR and Altiverb fill an important gap between mediocre hardware processors and ultra high-end hardware at an attractive price point that beats the heck out of the mid-line hardware. I do agree that the best of the high-end hardware remains quite welcome if price is no object.

But overall, CSR sounds pretty good. It has a warmth that I did not expect. As I said, I haven't been able to put it to good use only because of the processor load it requires. If anyone gets it, I'd be most interested to know to what degree it takes over the CPU as an isolated plugin...

[Resonant Alien]

Alien, what did you think of the UAD-1 140 verb?

The UAD 140 is AWESOME!! But, it's only a plate, and sometimes you wanna room, ya know?

I have a Lexicon MPX1 hardware unit which is AWESOME also and has halls, plates, rooms, etc., but I really want a good room/hall plugin because sometimes I just don't feel like dealing with patching in the MPX1.

RealVerb in the UAD is mediocre (better than DP's verbs, but still lacking) DreamVerb is better, but still not there - I would rather spend $199 on MasterVerb than $149 on DreamVerb.

PCM - I don't think anyone expects to get the same performance out of a $300 plugin as a $3000 hardware unit, but I for one can't afford to drop $3k on reverbs, so we're trying to find the closest thing we can.

[Tim]

Anybody hear this yet?

http://www.classikstudioreverb.com/Main.html?prod-CSR

It uses a dongle proprietary to IK Multimedia... not the iLok. I wanted to hear a demo, but you have to have their dongle before you can run the demo. Sounds like it might be decent... they make some pretty strong claims.

Yeah well, they raved about Amplitube too.

[James Steele]

Yeah well, they raved about Amplitube too.

Touché! But then you're talking to someone who still isn't convinced by amp emulations.

[Frodo]

Yeah well, they raved about Amplitube too.

Touché! But then you're talking to someone who still isn't convinced by amp emulations.

I've found UAD-1's Nigel to be about the best guitar emulator I could find, FWIW. I bought the 3U rack mount of the Line6 unit and have NEVER been happy with it in any way, shape, form, or function. Nigel, on the other hand, has gotten results that have turned the heads of some very picky session players. I always hear "what the hell did you do to my tracks?"-- and then they tell me "it sounds great-- how did you do that?"

In a mix, perhaps it's less crucial, but a real stack with some honest OD and genuine air rubbing against some great mic's and quality pre's can't be beat.

Reverbs? Altiverb 5 is about the best I can do. UAD's and MOTU's verbs get very limited usage...

[James Steele]

I've found UAD-1's Nigel to be about the best guitar emulator I could find, FWIW. I bought the 3U rack mount of the Line6 unit and have NEVER been happy with it in any way, shape, form, or function. Nigel, on the other hand, has gotten results that have turned the heads of some very picky session players. I always hear "what the hell did you do to my tracks?"-- and then they tell me "it sounds great-- how did you do that?"

In a mix, perhaps it's less crucial, but a real stack with some honest OD and genuine air rubbing against some great mic's and quality pre's can't be beat.

Hmmm... well one of my intended upgrades was to buy the UAD-1 UltraPak. I had put it off thinking I wouldn't do much mixing since I'll be mixing my CD at a friend's DP studio. However, might be fun to have Nigel.

Yeah, as for real amps... as a Marshall fiend, I just can't give them up. I'm excited now that I have a Millennia HV-3C due to arrive. I'm also taking my motorcycle up the road to Audio Upgrades in Van Nuys to drop off my AKG 414B-ULS. They have a mod for $250 that my friend did that he swears turned it into a whole new mic. So I figuring I'll try tracking with that mic and a 57 into the Millennia which willl feed the HD192 also on order. I'm expecting good things.

[Resonant Alien]

Guess it's all subjective, but I really don't like Nigel at all. I think Native Instruments Guitar Combos/Guitar Rig, TC Electronic's Tubifex, and even the old Line 6 POD 2.0 sound better and much more realistic (at least to my ears) than the Nigel - it's actually last on my personal list. My real amp is a VHT Pittbull 45.