MOTUnation.com

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:53 am**

This is both great and somewhat annoying news. As one that's been doing everything I can to keep my 2014 trash can operating (any OWC upgrade I could do, has been done), I've been waiting for an M1 MacPro that I could get a good 6-7 years out of. While it will feel like a bit of a compromise getting a Mac Studio Ultra, it may be the most sensible option. Going with a 4TB drive will be enough to handle all desktop apps and I'm fine using external storage for projects/audio and Kontakt.

Stupid question but will DP 11 be compatible with the M1 Ultra chip or will we have to wait months for that? Even max'd out the Mac Studio Ultra still saves me a few grand from what the Intel Mac Pro I almost just bought would have run me and it appears it's way more powerful too. The only thing holding me back is considering what an absolute beast the new Mac Pro will be once it's converted to M1 Ultra. However, 99% of what I do is TV cues and Drum Tracks, so that might just be far more machine than I'd ever actually need. Anyone waiting for a silicon MacPro?

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:37 am**

gavspen wrote:I want you all to know that the release of this Mac Studio line is only happening because finally, after months, nay years, of procrastination, I just bought a Mac mini M1 to replace my 2008 Mac Pro.

You're welcome

Gavin

I feel your pain.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:20 am**

FlikPat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:53 am Going with a 4TB drive will be enough to handle all desktop apps and I'm fine using external storage for projects/audio and Kontakt.

Stupid question but will DP 11 be compatible with the M1 Ultra chip …÷

No reason to believe it's not. DP 11 is compatible with the M1 Max — the Ultra is two of them fused together.

Going with a 4TB drive will be enough to handle all desktop apps and I'm fine using external storage for projects/audio and Kontakt

.

Keeping your VIs on an external makes sense and doesn't suffer a performance hit, likewise Apple Music (iTunes) and photo libraries.

I disagree with keeping your active projects on an external. On the rare occasion that I tweak an older project without bringing it back inside, it feels like swimming in molasses by comparison—sync'ing to video is the worst. Crippling your new Mac's speed by running DP projects on a slower drive just doesn't make sense to me. Your current 6.1 is a lot slower than my 18 core iMP — you're not going the difference as much as I do but once you get that incredibly fast new machine, the differences will be obvious.

These are currently the fastest externals for a Mac.
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-thunderblade
If we believe peak performance numbers (yes, fiction but useful for comparison), internal storage is about 2.5x faster on any T2 Mac with twin blades inside (the Mini, MBAir, 24" iMac have only one blade).

Bumping any current Mac from 4TB to 8TB costs $1,200; the 4TB version of the Thunderblade is $1,348. Yes, if you need more storage, these are available up to 32TB but it makes more sense to get as much as you can internally first.

As has been posted elsewhere, internal storage for the Mac is expensive. True… but external storage with decent performance can cost more without being as fast.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:38 pm**

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:20 am These are currently the fastest externals for a Mac.
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-thunderblade
If we believe peak performance numbers (yes, fiction but useful for comparison), internal storage is about 2.5x faster on any T2 Mac with twin blades inside (the Mini, MBAir, 24" iMac have only one blade).

Bumping any current Mac from 4TB to 8TB costs $1,200; the 4TB version of the Thunderblade is $1,348. Yes, if you need more storage, these are available up to 32TB but it makes more sense to get as much as you can internally first.

As has been posted elsewhere, internal storage for the Mac is expensive. True… but external storage with decent performance can cost more without being as fast.

This can't be stressed enough, especially with what is a huge portion of DP users. If you're using typically 40GB of RAM for your orchestral projects then it's IMO going to make a lot more sense to buy the M1 Max with 64GB RAM and as much TB in drive space as you can afford. Orchestral libraries lode slow, that's just all there is to it, and although they do suck up CPU, it's multiple plug ins across multiple tracks that really sap your chip. Until someone breaks the 2800MB/s Thunderbolt external enclosure limit, internal SSDs are just much faster.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:39 pm**

dix wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:18 am Another MacMini would be redundant. Mac Studio is essentially the anticipated new MacMini

Quoting myself to say, not so fast. Looks like there is still a possibility of a new MacMini: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/09/up ... MmOCwgoSfw

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:14 pm**

dix wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:39 pm
dix wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:18 am Another MacMini would be redundant. Mac Studio is essentially the anticipated new MacMini
Quoting myself to say, not so fast. Looks like there is still a possibility of a new MacMini: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/03/09/up ... MmOCwgoSfw

From what I read in the various outlets reporting the March 7 announcements, the answer is yes, there will be another Mini. But Apple seems to have given notice if you want something significantly more powerful than the most recent Mini release, the Studio is what you'll have to buy. It would make no sense to cannibalize potential Studio sales with a more powerful Mini.

After a couple of glasses of wine, the Studio looks like a no brainer. But I've never had a project my current Mini can't handle. And with 7 Macs, three iPads, and two iPhones in a two person household, and no spousal receipts from Apple, it's a long shot.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:46 pm**

bayswater wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:14 pm …
After a couple of glasses of wine, the Studio looks like a no brainer. But I've never had a project my current Mini can't handle. And with 7 Macs, three iPads, and two iPhones in a two person household, and no spousal receipts from Apple, it's a long shot.

Hmmmm... the count around here is 5 Macs, 2 iPads, 2 iPhones and 4 or 5 iPods. I'm only counting the active units. My older daughter is visiting from Texas and unearthed a box with a few iPhones and a couple of G4 Minis that haven't seen use in many years just this morning. Then there are the iMacs being sent to recycling… Sheesh!

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:51 pm**

FlikPat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:53 amAnyone waiting for a silicon MacPro?

Guilty.

Hoping the baseline model will provide the storage-bay, PCI and I/O options I need / might need whilst still matching the performance of the Studio M1 Max at least.

If not, I'll have to take a piecemeal approach and farm my internally-mounted stuff to external chassis and grab the cheapest Studio configuration I can justify.

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:48 am**

mikehalloran wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:20 am
FlikPat wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:53 am Going with a 4TB drive will be enough to handle all desktop apps and I'm fine using external storage for projects/audio and Kontakt.

Stupid question but will DP 11 be compatible with the M1 Ultra chip …÷
No reason to believe it's not. DP 11 is compatible with the M1 Max — the Ultra is two of them fused together.

Going with a 4TB drive will be enough to handle all desktop apps and I'm fine using external storage for projects/audio and Kontakt
.

Keeping your VIs on an external makes sense and doesn't suffer a performance hit, likewise Apple Music (iTunes) and photo libraries.

I disagree with keeping your active projects on an external. On the rare occasion that I tweak an older project without bringing it back inside, it feels like swimming in molasses by comparison—sync'ing to video is the worst. Crippling your new Mac's speed by running DP projects on a slower drive just doesn't make sense to me. Your current 6.1 is a lot slower than my 18 core iMP — you're not going the difference as much as I do but once you get that incredibly fast new machine, the differences will be obvious.

These are currently the fastest externals for a Mac.
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-thunderblade
If we believe peak performance numbers (yes, fiction but useful for comparison), internal storage is about 2.5x faster on any T2 Mac with twin blades inside (the Mini, MBAir, 24" iMac have only one blade).

Bumping any current Mac from 4TB to 8TB costs $1,200; the 4TB version of the Thunderblade is $1,348. Yes, if you need more storage, these are available up to 32TB but it makes more sense to get as much as you can internally first.

As has been posted elsewhere, internal storage for the Mac is expensive. True… but external storage with decent performance can cost more without being as fast.

Yes, actually I meant I'd keep my VI's and my archive projects on External and keep whatever I was actively working on, on the main HD. I have a 2TB drive on my 2014 MP, have way too many projects saved to it and probably way too many VI's and still have almost 1TB free. I'd feel pretty safe going with a 4TB drive and making a concerted effort to do some "housecleaning" every month or so and send any non active projects to the externals.

Talked our Apple Biz guy (I'm an owner of a pretty busy Music Library/Prod Co) and he was surprisingly neutral "it's a beast but lack of modular support and no PCIe ports (I use Thundbolt interfaces anyway) may be something to consider. They did say they have a silicon Mac Pro in the wings so...".
Considering giving it to the June Mac event to see if they tease anything. I know the Mac Studio would cover all I need for a solid 5 years BUT a silicon Mac Pro with some upgrades might cover the next decade.

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:27 pm**

FlikPat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:48 am
Talked our Apple Biz guy (I'm an owner of a pretty busy Music Library/Prod Co) and he was surprisingly neutral "it's a beast but lack of modular support and no PCIe ports (I use Thundbolt interfaces anyway) may be something to consider. They did say they have a silicon Mac Pro in the wings so...".
Considering giving it to the June Mac event to see if they tease anything. I know the Mac Studio would cover all I need for a solid 5 years BUT a silicon Mac Pro with some upgrades might cover the next decade.

I think the Studio Ultra will probably cover the next decade!

As I await receipt of my new Mac, I am running a surprisingly functional 2010 Mac Pro 12 core as the heart of my studio. Yes, it has been upgraded here and there (new CPUs and GPU, more RAM and hard drives), but it is important to remember where DAW tech stood in 2010 relative to where we are today... DAWs and the peripheral software and hardware required to run them are much more mature, and computer tech has essentially outstripped the demands audio imposes.

Unless there is some magical breakthrough requiring PCIe direct access, the speed of these machines and TB4 connectivity should allow music producers to deal with just about any contingency. Maybe machine learning will change things as the years go by, but I'm not sure how interested I am or will ever be in removing the composer from the process of composing.

Posted: **Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:23 pm**

wylie1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:08 am Well that was a quick 3.5k in Canadian Pesos.
Apple M1 Max with 10-core CPU, 32-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine
64GB unified memory
1TB SSD storage
At least there was the 0% interest option.
If it holds up as well as my 2008 Mac Pro it should out live me.

I've got my finger on the "continue" button on the same thing. Long overdue to replace my 2008 Mac Pro!

I thought I had to get the Ultra for 64GB RAM so that's good news.
What are you doing for audio and MIDI interface?

Posted: **Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:38 pm**

I can confirm that my old MOTU MTP AV works under Intel/Monterey. I tried it with my 2017 MacBook Pro. Just update to the latest MOTU driver. Of course that does not speak to if it would be operational under Apple Silicon. Has MOTU commented about that?

My question is, do I need the Ultra 20-core M1 processor, due to my heavy virtual instrument needs? Or would the 10-core Max suffice?

I’m waiting to hear reports from the field (you guys!) before I buy. I’m also waiting to see what the next MacPro line looks like. Did somebody say there may be an announcement in June?
Greg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Posted: **Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:02 pm**

greg328 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:38 pm I can confirm that my old MOTU MTP AV works under Intel/Monterey.

Oh yea, no problems there.

Re the M1, just haven't the time and I have a plane to catch — perhaps, I'll get it tested next week.

…
I’m also waiting to see what the next MacPro line looks like. Did somebody say there may be an announcement in June?

Oh, everybody's saying something — MP in June… MP in December… MP in 2023…

Take your pick.

Posted: **Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:05 pm**

ironchef_marc wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:23 pm What are you doing for audio and MIDI interface?

Anything that supports CoreAudio should work.

This is a little out of date.

https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/ ... audio-inst

Posted: **Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:17 pm**

Thanks Mike! Thanks again for the Mac rescue a few weeks ago, I’m forever grateful!

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