MOTUnation.com

Shooshie wrote:

bone.china wrote:the way i see it is if MIDI doesn't work properly in the first place, then there is no reason to buy any of motu's or anybody else's MIDI hardware. the MIDI problems are present on every platform on mac os x. i sold my mtpav and started using the MIDI port on my sound card and it's the same old story as when i was using the mtpav. at least i got some of my money back. until the MIDI implementation is satisfactorily repaired on os x then the best advice is to use the cheapest MIDI interface that meets one's needs because you are only going to waste time and more money in the long run working with a MIDI system that is woefully inadequate.

does anybody even know it pc users have these kinds of problems under xp?

Geez, bone.china, don't assume that everyone is having these problems. I've had a few problems with MIDI-related things over the years since DP 4.0, and believe me, I get very upset when my MIDI workflow gets interrupted for any stupid reason. But these problems have never lasted for more than one version, and currently everything is running very well. I did a study a while back and found that MOST people with MIDI problems were using MIDI driver version 1.3.2. The fix for that was simply to go back to driver 1.3.1.

MOTU USB MIDI Driver version 1.3.1.sit

You might try it. I can't guarantee it will fix what ails you, but a LOT of people have told me that it did just that.

Shooshie

Yeah Shooshie..maybe so, but what kind of company requires it's users to de-bug and then recommend going back to older versions? What kind of co. makes newer versions of drivers that suck?...

You should not have to do that, and the guy you're arguing with, well, his point is that MOTU is not getting the job done well, and I think you're having to fix things FOR MOTU...makes his point

If I might chime in, one must determine if the problem is universal, fairly widespread, sporadic, or mostly isolated to a modicum of users.

With evidence that a particular driver may be more useful for solving one issue or another, the issue remains as to if/when/whether MOTU can even reproduce the problem. It's doubtful that MOTU runs tests with a combo of devices and third-party add-ons that users are most likely using for the sake of reporting compatibility and other conflicts-- if they are running such tests at all. It's more likely that MOTU is running the latest version of OSX and the latest version of DP and its associated drivers and plugins on systems that are "MOTU pristine".

The sludge simply rolls downhill. Users point to MOTU, MOTU points to third-party vendors, and everyone points at Apple who proceeds with constantly rearranging the furniture for developers and users and tossing the sludge right back into everyone else's laps to sort out. What remains is a lack of that once-and-for-all solution that works for everyone. Doubtful anymore that such a thing exists.

I am convinced that each DAW carries its own Pandora's Box of issues-- whether DAW 'A' works better in one area a user needs than DAW 'B' can impact on one's overall impression of how things are really working. There's just no way to get an accurate take on what's going on.

Of course, we are just hours away from new promises of "the next greatest thing" in Apple technology. To be honest, I'm suffering a bit from geek fatigue to get very excited about it because with every release of "the next greatest thing" there appears a series of threads of new problems from users who don't always agree on what the problem is, what the source of the problem is, and what the solution(s) might be.

The only reliable pattern I've seen follows a scenario akin to:

DP 4.6 is out.
DP 4.6 sucks.
DP 4.52 was better (after it sucked)
DP 4.61 is out.
DP 4.60 was better (after it sucked)
DP 5 is out.
DP 5 sucks.
DP 5.01 is out.
Dp 5.01 is great.
DP 5.01 sucks
DP 5.1 is out.
DP 5.1 is faster.
DP 5.1 is slower.
DP 4.61 is better (after it sucked)

I just feel so worn down by it all.

A positive note: I've been crash testing 5.1 for about the last 24 hours. 2 gigs of RAM at 1.67. I have yet to duplicate a single reported bug. CPU efficiency is much better than 4.61.
Things seem rock-solid on this end. I just don't understand the cause of the stated problems, but I use a minimum of plugs. I even use the dreaded Quicktime 7.2.1 which has been reported on other threads as "breaking" DP.

I installed everything as cleanly as possible, getting rid of prefs, audio bundles, and previous versions.

Frodo wrote:
I just feel so worn down by it all.

Ahh, we all get the job done at the end of the day

cuttime wrote:I just don't understand the cause of the stated problems, but I use a minimum of plugs.

That statement says a LOT right there, for good or ill. Most of the problems being reported (so far) appear to be plugin/VI related-- although there are one or two who are still experiencing save and edge edit problems.

The edge edit problem was corrected. Since I was the one to send them the info in the first place, I got a mail from tech support telling me the bug was corrected. As far as I can tell the bug is really gone.

BFD drums seem to have a little bug where the display of the pull down menus as well as the actual central drum display goes blank when clicking it..you have to keep clicking it to get it to work.

Frodo wrote:DP 4.6 is out.
DP 4.6 sucks.
DP 4.52 was better (after it sucked)
DP 4.61 is out.
DP 4.60 was better (after it sucked)
DP 5 is out.
DP 5 sucks.
DP 5.01 is out.
Dp 5.01 is great.
DP 5.01 sucks
DP 5.1 is out.
DP 5.1 is faster.
DP 5.1 is slower.
DP 4.61 is better (after it sucked)

I read few sw forums (for example NI, Finale) and I can tell that this is not something unique to Motu. Finale for example has had exacly the same scheme with every update. Thanks for writing this

The new UB version runs a hell of a lot faster on my MacBook Pro, so I am happy with that aspect, BUT...
it crashes more than a lactose intolerent PC running Windows 98.
The weird part is that it usually crashes from nothing more than sending MIDI data to it. What the heck? I have never had any DP/MIDI issues. Ever.
Anyway, I will post back when I get this one figured out...


P.S. where is UB MachFive?!?! I want my samples back.

I replaced all audioease plugs and wrapper, updated MSI and MacV

I still get COQ even though I've removed isight and installed LAME.

All VI's work well except MachV has to be used in the VST wrapper.

I'm also having trouble with follo in older projects. This can be fixed by opening the project in 5.01 and replacing the follo plugin with the update.

Otherwise, there seems to be some increased "snappiness" goin on.

Thank you Frodo. Well said.

The frustrating thing for me in all this is that a good number of the recent posts reporting some sort of problem give little or no details about what else the user might be running. This means that the rest of us have no point of reference to process whether this is a widespread problem, a particular system combination problem, or a operator-error problem. Just putting a post up that says "DP 5.1 is slow and crashes all the time" without any qualifying statements or further explanations is a waste of everyone's time, including the person who wrote the post.

The Grass is Always Greener.....nothing truer has ever been said. Look on this forum and you'll see people bitching about DP and threatening to go to Logic or PT. Look on the Logic forum and you'll see people bitching about Logic and threatening to go to DP or PT. Look on a PT forum, well...you get the idea.

It all depends on how you work and what type of projects you do. Some people may even find that one single DAW doesn't work for them - they need to have two DAWs. There are plenty of people I've seen on this forum who run both Logic and DP for different aspects of a project - run Logic to record VIs, then dump to DP for editing and mixing. That might be a pretty damn good combination of apps, and there's nothing wrong with working that way.

We all work differently, and the spectrum of what DP users do with their systems is huge - some record almost exclusively with VIs and loops - others record exclusively with live audio - some track in DP and mix in Pro Tools, etc. I think as long as we keep looking for DP to do everything perfectly, we are going to be continually disappointed. DP is not perfect, and there are some pretty big bugs that need to be resolved, but it's never gonna do everything that every user wants it to do.

Frodo wrote:DP 4.6 is out.
DP 4.6 sucks.
DP 4.52 was better (after it sucked)
DP 4.61 is out.
DP 4.60 was better (after it sucked)
DP 5 is out.
DP 5 sucks.
DP 5.01 is out.
Dp 5.01 is great.
DP 5.01 sucks
DP 5.1 is out.
DP 5.1 is faster.
DP 5.1 is slower.
DP 4.61 is better (after it sucked)

The truth can be so very funny!

papageno wrote:
I read few sw forums (for example NI, Finale) and I can tell that this is not something unique to Motu. Finale for example has had exacly the same scheme with every update. Thanks for writing this

We're not supposed to notice any patterns, guys.
Have y'all forgotten how to play the mushroom?

Good call, papageno.

supersonic wrote:The edge edit problem was corrected. Since I was the one to send them the info in the first place, I got a mail from tech support telling me the bug was corrected. As far as I can tell the bug is really gone.

Yes-- many users have confirmed this fix, but there have been one or two reports since where it worked for a while and then went back to its old ways. Keeps me scratching my head as to why-- what other software properties might be interfering with this.

Resonant Alien wrote:It all depends on how you work and what type of projects you do. Some people may even find that one single DAW doesn't work for them - they need to have two DAWs. There are plenty of people I've seen on this forum who run both Logic and DP for different aspects of a project - run Logic to record VIs, then dump to DP for editing and mixing. That might be a pretty damn good combination of apps, and there's nothing wrong with working that way.

That's what I've been doing more or less. It gets the job done..

Resonant Alien wrote:I think as long as we keep looking for DP to do everything perfectly, we are going to be continually disappointed. DP is not perfect, and there are some pretty big bugs that need to be resolved, but it's never gonna do everything that every user wants it to do.

I just keep hoping that for those processes in a given project that I do exclusively in DP that the features will allow for compartmentalizing different steps in the project. It does become universally problemmatic when reports of the Save and Save As functions continue to crop up. This is the single most crucial feature of any bit of software. I only hope this is happening less and less, but since 5.1 there have been at least two reports of Save problems on this forum. At least one user is suffering from severe installation issues and crashes. It all serves to keep the questions rolling in.

Okay, so we've got new Intel Quads on the way.

Good: 64-bit processing with concurrent 32-bit processing without emulation.

Question: When will software developers get their apps up to 64-bit? An army is only as efficient as its slowest soldier.

Good: 16 GB RAM

Question: DAWs and other apps now have RAM limits of 2-4 GB. When will this limit be expanded to address the additional RAM capacity?

Good: 10.5 is on its way.

Question: How long will it take before the Leopard changes its spots?

The questions continue while hope is in the air.

WSVP wrote:I have a theory as to why "all notes off" may fail in a lot of situations. Keep in mind this is only a theory!

I assume that when DP sends an all notes of it is transmitting a note of message on all 128 key values, on all channels at the same time. The problem may be that this overloads the available polyphony in either a hardware or software instrument, thus the instrument may run out of polyphony before it can execute the "note off" for the offending note or notes.

I believe the solution would be for MOTU to stagger the note off messages with enough gap to not overload the instrument polyphony or CPU. This would cause a slight delay in the completion of the process but may solve the issue...

Just a theory.

Nice try, but MIDI is a serial data protocol, which means that the messages are sent in rapid succession. There is no way to send more than one message at a time. This also has nothing to do with polyphony - the MIDI-receiving part and sound-generating part of any synth is separate.

However, in my experience, cmd-1 works to kill the stuck notes. It really really does kill the mood when it happens!

toodamnhip wrote:BFD drums seem to have a little bug where the display of the pull down menus as well as the actual central drum display goes blank when clicking it..you have to keep clicking it to get it to work.

I can confirm that.