MOTUnation.com

twistedtom wrote: CS- Mossart's computer was to old to run DP and it was Windows.

Did you mean Moss Art?



BTW - DP 7 is not running on my G5 at all! I am so pissed!!!

(i cn beoch mre btr thn u cn.) LOL

bayswater wrote: Can't let that one go by. Steinberg did exactly the opposite. They promised VST 5.2 that would fix bugs and finally introduce features listed on the box, then reneged, and released SX1 as a paid upgrade. SX1 didn't warrant the beta designation. They released SX2 as a paid upgrade, and got to a working version. Release SX3 as a paid upgrade with advertised featured greyed out. Promised fixes to SX 3 and delivery of advertised features, then again reneged and put out Cubase 4 as a paid upgrade. Cubase 4 took 18 months to stabilize, then out came V5 with features DP and Logic had for ages. Don't think we want MOTU taking lessons from Steinberg.

Well, to be fair, Cubase has also features for some time that others do not have ... and, opposed to DP7 they do not only allow to print articulations but they have an articulation sequencer in Cubase 5 that is not that bad for people working with sample libraries. (I think that could be done better, but at least they clearly managed to make that step).

For me, one of the major problems is DP with VIs. Not only compared to Logic, but also Live and Reason anyways are much more reliable when using VIs. What is all the great MIDI stuff for these days if the VI performances is ... well, ways behind pretty much all programs in this market.

MOTU does do funny things like pre-rendering of VIs and so on, and yes, it helped dramatically compared to DP5.x but compared to others there seems still to be factor of 2 (which is also due to funny processor spikes that others just do not have). So pre-rendering helped, did not at all close the gap and also cause lots of problems and has lots of inconveniences. Seems it would be easier to fix it - I mean if only Logic was more performant in this regard - ok, it is an Apple product, etc. But Live also performs better with the same VIs (Zebra, Kontakt3, FM8, etc).

There is lots of great stuff in DP and MIDI editing is great, but as it is really far behind the average performance I really wonder what they have it for? Outboard gear is history - I mean ...

best

waxman wrote:

daniel.sneed wrote:

HCMarkus wrote:[...] The solution is simple, and if you don't already know what it is (despite my repeated harping on the subject) here you go: CLONE your system drive to another partition or drive and install DP6 over the clone, retaining your existing system as a fallback if the new version does not work. You, too, can try a new version of DP (or any software) AT NO RISK.
IMO, If you are a professional working with any DAW, you simply cannot risk an upgrade without backing up your current system first. Back up, and move forward! Live long and prosper while you're at it!

Well said Markus ! And more than that : I've been in serious trouble last year with a dead internal HD, no clone and a heavy deadline. Perhaps the worst 24 hours in my long professional life. This won't happen anymore. Whenever a dead line, or any event approaching, I clone to an external FireWire HD, through SuperDuper. BTW, it takes only 5 minutes to update my clone thru the fully registered SuperDuper.
I keep my clone HD and a copy of my original install disks in my bag... And sleep well!
In case of HD fail I can be up and running in less than an 10 minutes. In case of total computer wreck, if I can find any Intel Mac or MacBook, I can be up and running in less than an hour.

The main advantage of cloning over Time Machine is you can move to a new computer with the external drive? Any other reasons to clone instead of time machine...

Yes. Bootable Backup. Time machine will fill in any gaps.

rthorderson wrote:So, I just ordered SL and DP7...and yes, I am a little disappointed by not getting a little pricing break for being one of the DP6 casualties. But, even with extra hours I spent recovering projects from crashes, I couldn't give up the DP6 features and go back to DP5.

The ProVerb alone changed everything I did on my projects (lots of old rack hardware sitting around collecting dust now).

I am an old-timer (yes, I am fluent in razor blades and splicing blocks), and have been using Performer since v.1. On my last project, I sat back several times...in complete awe...of the tools we have at our finger tips. I live in Pitch Correction tool (thus all the DP6 crashing) and still shake my head as I vocalist's stellar performances no longer require perfect intonation...this tool alone (and the way MOTU implemented it) is nothing short of miraculous.

I could go on and on, but it would continue to sound like a paid commercial. So, ya, count me in as one who will pay for the upgrades, if for no other reason than to keep MOTU breathing...and because a new DP version always feels like C'mas morning to me! I really needed some cabinet emulation for my direct-recorded Bass tracks on the last project, but couldn't decide which to buy (or justify the investment)...sweet!

+1. I liked this post. As another pre-geezer I go back with MOTU about as long, and can appreciate the C'mas morning analogy!

I also feel that DP6 users could/should have a more modest upgrade fee. But for those who threaten to jump to Logic, there is no logic there- I paid 1000 for Logic 7 just a couple years ago, Logic 8 came out soon after so I coughed another $250, now Logic 9 is out for $199. It seems like DP6 was released around the same time of Logic 8, and likewise Logic 9 and DP7 are now being simultaneously released with guitar sims a prominent feature in each. I use DP a lot, Logic not so much so I can't really begrudge MOTU the upgrade fee if it keeps them in business and keeps them competitive.

I'm also quite sure that MOTU makes most of their DP money from longtime users, as first time (younger) buyers might be more enticed by the pricing and features of Logic and Live at the present time.

DP6.02 has been very stable for me on Tiger and intel, and I must say this is the version of DP that has been more stimulating and enjoyable for me than any recent version going back to 3.1. I just figured out the track comping feature (after doing my audio editing in another medium for years) and it is wonderful. Looking forward to mastering pitch correction next! Echoing what others have said, the resources available to us in DP are truly staggering.

I'm drooling over some of the features in 7.0, things like consolidating the V-racks into the mixer are very cool indeed. I just picked up a new electric guitar so have been contemplating the Amplitube group buy, but I could use that money on DP7 and get guitar amp sims plus more, much more.

I can see the merit in sitting out a release as well. It seems we spend so much time in forums and in upgrading our systems, worrying about compatibility, etc., that it takes a huge chunk out of the time available to actually perform and compose. It never ends. Now I'm chomping at the bit to run DP in Snow Leopard, but don't really want to pay 160 bucks for the upgrade pak from Tiger, as it makes more sense to get SL and iLife free on the next computer purchase. Decisions.

But as MLC said, it's only money, and who am I to deny myself an extra C'mas morning? I will no doubt be ordering DP7 soon.

Tobor

I have been doing audio edge edits along with sliding MIDI notes around on tracks all morning. Jumping from MIDI window to sequence window. Had I of tried this last week before Snow Leopard I would have crashed at least a few times and that is if I was real careful.

As I started editing this morning I got more and more brave. Finally I was trying things to make it crash like, edge edit, rewind, hit space to play and click on a MIDI note as fast as possible. With Leopard this would have crashed DP 6.02 every time.

So what is the difference? Only one thing. Apple fixed it's OS. I am using the exact same DP 6.02 I have been using since its release.

The truth is DP 6.02 is stable on Snow Leopard... for those who are on Intel machines that are concerned about the cost of upgrading DP7 a great solution is the $29 upgrade to Snow Leopard.

DP 6.02 with Snow Leopard is the most stable DAW on the market. Logic 8 is not nearly as stable, not is Logic 9, Cubase or Protools.

Finally if DP7 is this good with Snow Leopard Shooshie was right. "We made it to the promised land." Thanks Shooshie for going for it.

Halleluja!!! Thanx for SL
I´m expecting to read nothing but positive things about DP from now on

yup. if MOTU handed us a 64 bit DP-7 we'd all be bitching about the fact that none of our 3rd party plug ins would work.

and i really, really, don't think that would be fun...

so, do you REALLY want a 64bit DP now?

Shooshie wrote:
Secondly, you should read about 64-bit, and know that it's not as simple as being the first DAW on the block to implement it. While there may be a method of doing so before the plugins go 64-bit, we do not know if MOTU is going to try it that way. It would involve making plugins and VI's boot in their own app space, connected to DP through interapplication ports. That would require a new architecture that may not even be practical. But generally speaking NO applications (graphics, video, internet, DAW, or otherwise) can run in 64-bits if any of their plugins are still in 32-bits. You can learn more about it in the many stories on the Internet or at Apple's website. True 64-bit will be a long time coming, most likely, and not even the majority of Macs are capable of it yet.

Shooshie

waxman wrote:The main advantage of cloning over Time Machine is you can move to a new computer with the external drive? Any other reasons to clone instead of time machine...

Yes, Waxman, failure can be :

1 - hard drive failure
2 - system corruption
A firewire bootable clone will get you out of these in no time.

3 - mother board failure
You'll need to *borrow* another Mac in this case, though.

steff3 wrote: MOTU does do funny things like pre-rendering of VIs and so on, and yes, it helped dramatically compared to DP5.x but compared to others there seems still to be factor of 2 (which is also due to funny processor spikes that others just do not have). So pre-rendering helped, did not at all close the gap and also cause lots of problems and has lots of inconveniences. Seems it would be easier to fix it - I mean if only Logic was more performant in this regard - ok, it is an Apple product, etc. But Live also performs better with the same VIs (Zebra, Kontakt3, FM8, etc).

With regard to performance, sorry but this is almost wholly inaccurate. Pre-rendering is hardly a "funny thing," and you can bet it will be the next thing that other DAW developers copy when they get around to it.

The reason? There's a performance gap alright, but it's the opposite of what you say it is. See:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 78#p305178


As far as VIs, my workflow mostly consists of importing audio recorded in the studio into DP 6.02 and mixing in-the-8-core box. I am threfore mostly VI based, and problems are very few and far between.

waxman wrote:...
DP 6.02 with Snow Leopard is the most stable DAW on the market. Logic 8 is not nearly as stable, not is Logic 9, Cubase or Protools...

SL is only a few days available, but you have tested all DAW´s extensively so that you can say DP works best of all?

waxman wrote:DP 6.02 with Snow Leopard is the most stable DAW on the market. Logic 8 is not nearly as stable, not is Logic 9, Cubase or Protools.

WIth all due respect, I don't think blanket statements like that are very accurate (unless you're speaking strictly for yourself). For example, since I've been using PT8, I have never had ONE crash or ANY problems with it at all. I'm just sayin'...

666 wrote:For example, since I've been using PT8, I have never had ONE crash or ANY problems with it at all. I'm just sayin'...

Hell, I've been using Pro Tools (LE) since version 6.4, and, to the best of my memory, it's never crashed or 'unexpectedly quit' once. That's including some pretty heavy duty mixing sessions taxing out my old G4, even using Powercore plug-ins via the VST-RTAS wrapper. Still, stability's not everything. I'm going to be downgrading my Pro Tools rig so that I only use it for setting up recording sessions at PT studios.

666 wrote:

waxman wrote:DP 6.02 with Snow Leopard is the most stable DAW on the market. Logic 8 is not nearly as stable, not is Logic 9, Cubase or Protools.

WIth all due respect, I don't think blanket statements like that are very accurate (unless you're speaking strictly for yourself). For example, since I've been using PT8, I have never had ONE crash or ANY problems with it at all. I'm just sayin'...

Whoa, I think Clifford and me posted at the same time and mine got sucked into the void.

Anyways, I don't see more than a handful of crashes a year with PT, most all of them with Auto Tune, which has a bug that brings the system down. Outside of AT I bet I don't see a crash a year , working on a dozen different systems, sometimes a couple at a time, running all day.

bb

taylor12k wrote:yup. if MOTU handed us a 64 bit DP-7 we'd all be bitching about the fact that none of our 3rd party plug ins would work.

and i really, really, don't think that would be fun...

so, do you REALLY want a 64bit DP now?

Shooshie wrote:
Secondly, you should read about 64-bit, and know that it's not as simple as being the first DAW on the block to implement it. While there may be a method of doing so before the plugins go 64-bit, we do not know if MOTU is going to try it that way. It would involve making plugins and VI's boot in their own app space, connected to DP through interapplication ports. That would require a new architecture that may not even be practical. But generally speaking NO applications (graphics, video, internet, DAW, or otherwise) can run in 64-bits if any of their plugins are still in 32-bits. You can learn more about it in the many stories on the Internet or at Apple's website. True 64-bit will be a long time coming, most likely, and not even the majority of Macs are capable of it yet.

Shooshie

32bit plugins will stop working on a 64bit DAW??
Sorry but that's just not true, Sonar has already made an announcement of their 64bit version that will allow 32bit plugins to operate normally within the program and even giving them access to up to 128GB of ram.

I am fully aware that going 64bit requires a major write up in code and is not easy to implement but it would have been nice if they actually tried since a few already are.

Mr_Clifford wrote:Hell, I've been using Pro Tools (LE) since version 6.4, and, to the best of my memory, it's never crashed or 'unexpectedly quit' once. That's including some pretty heavy duty mixing sessions taxing out my old G4, even using Powercore plug-ins via the VST-RTAS wrapper. Still, stability's not everything. I'm going to be downgrading my Pro Tools rig so that I only use it for setting up recording sessions at PT studios.

I have to agree. I've also been using PT LE & HD since v6 and I can count the number of times its ever crashed on one hand. That said, I still think it's ridiculously overpriced for what it does and I don't have any plans to ever aspire to owning my own HD rig. It's just not worth it.