DP 7 Officially Announced!!!!

[bongo_x]

Sharing your own opinion and experiences is good. I don't understand the people who berate and mock others here for their opinion without knowing or taking into account their financial situation, work status, etc.

As in; "I make good money from DP and can easily afford the upgrade price, I spent more than that on my last dog wash. If you don't like it then you're a whining loser".

Not all DP users make their living from it.
Not everyone can afford it.
Many simply don't think it's a good deal.

Besides, half the comments simply don't make any sense to me. I'm not following the redneck/hypocrite thing at all. But it is early. I appreciate the wonders of technology as much as the next guy, but I don't have to buy all of them. Nuendo is $1700? I've seen speaker cables that were $5000, but I'm not going to buy those either. And if you got 195 cups of coffee that you like for $195 dollars then it seems like you got a pretty good deal for your money.

Which is the point, some people feel they didn't get good value for the money on the
LAST upgrade and are hesitant about doing it again. If everyone was happy with the value for their money they wouldn't be objecting. This is the potential problem for MOTU. You lose people. I find this funny because there are rants here about the cost of Pro Tools and the same argument doesn't gain much ground. It has been expensive, but I made many times my investment back on it. So why doesn't everyone have a Pro Tools system, and why are you complaining about the price? I've made a lot of money on it! Seriously though, I don't even have the latest system because I don't feel it would pay off. Value.

My point is that everyone's experience is not the same as yours, we should keep the mocking and harassing down. And now I want to go on a date with FM. Somewhere REALLY nice.

bb

[kgdrum]

There seem to be two groups of complainers in this thread. One is the $195 upgrade. If you are one of that group and has ever bought a $4 buck cup of Starbucks instead of .99 cents from the local stop & go joint then...

except most people don't know a refill from Starbucks is 50 cents not $4.00

[HCMarkus]

+1 on Bongo's comments... including the date with FM (if my wife doesn't object.)

I did lol at the comment regarding another poster's marital status given the lack of $100+ dinner dates... classic, and I hope not offered or taken as anything other than a humorous observation. I took my wife out for more than a few big dinners before we were married (and since) but she has cooked many, many more excellent meals for me in our 24 years of marriage. Sometimes, investments pay off.

I'm excited by DP7, don't find the cost particularly galling given the need for MOTU to make money to keep DP rolling, but will probably not be upgrading until I move to a new Mac and SL. And that may be a while, 'cause it's gonna' cost a lot more than $195!

As far as the new features go, I am in the camp that DP6 is already a miracle, but I'm sure I'll enjoy the new stuff when I get it. The inline EQ and Comp seems cool, and it looks like we can select the plugins of choice to serve in that role. Nice! I'm anxious to hear the early adopters' takes on DP7, and thank everybody here at MOTUNation, and especially James, for keeping the vibe fun, mellow, and informative.

[wurliuchi]

Sharing your own opinion and experiences is good. I don't understand the people who berate and mock others here for their opinion without knowing or taking into account their financial situation, work status, etc.

As in; "I make good money from DP and can easily afford the upgrade price, I spent more than that on my last dog wash. If you don't like it then you're a whining loser".

Not all DP users make their living from it.
Not everyone can afford it.
Many simply don't think it's a good deal.

Besides, half the comments simply don't make any sense to me. I'm not following the redneck/hypocrite thing at all. But it is early. I appreciate the wonders of technology as much as the next guy, but I don't have to buy all of them. Nuendo is $1700? I've seen speaker cables that were $5000, but I'm not going to buy those either. And if you got 195 cups of coffee that you like for $195 dollars then it seems like you got a pretty good deal for your money.

Which is the point, some people feel they didn't get good value for the money on the
LAST upgrade and are hesitant about doing it again. If everyone was happy with the value for their money they wouldn't be objecting. This is the potential problem for MOTU. You lose people. I find this funny because there are rants here about the cost of Pro Tools and the same argument doesn't gain much ground. It has been expensive, but I made many times my investment back on it. So why doesn't everyone have a Pro Tools system, and why are you complaining about the price? I've made a lot of money on it! Seriously though, I don't even have the latest system because I don't feel it would pay off. Value.

My point is that everyone's experience is not the same as yours, we should keep the mocking and harassing down. And now I want to go on a date with FM. Somewhere REALLY nice.

bb

Thank you!

People telling other people how to feel about spending their own money is in bad form, but so is ranting and acting like $195 is the end of the world or a personal attack on one's character.

[jloeb]

Not all DP users make their living from it.
Not everyone can afford it.
Many simply don't think it's a good deal.

There is nothing wrong with expressing one's opinion. But its expression does not mean that it should be exempt from any analysis.

Here is why I believe that one cannot reasonably conclude that $195 is a "bad deal" for this upgrade, by any measure:

Simply visit these links, in order:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GOSDOS

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search. ... awodykdekw

http://www.motu.com/products/software/d ... emos.html/

In my opinion, what MOTU has bundled into this upgrade is superior in intrinsic tone to Amplitube 2, and compares favorably with Softube products, the best available that I am aware of. Moreover, the capacity it provides is more like the equivalent of two or more Softube products, not just one.

Now, you could reasonably hold the position that MOTU's decision to pursue this more amp-friendly, guitar/bass-friendly route is a mistake and a bad decision. You could argue that bundling like this is a pain for people who have no interest at all in using amp simulation in their music.

But what you cannot reasonably argue is that $195 is too much to ask for what MOTU has bundled with this software. By the measure of the market, it just simply is not. The value is there; the price is appropriate, even a bargain, given the added capacities it includes.

If you don't want these new features, then don't upgrade and you'll be in fine shape. According to Shooshie, Waxman and others, under Snow Leopard ($29), DP 6.02 is a rock. There's your new 5.13. Stay with it then; it's awesome.

Which is the point, some people feel they didn't get good value for the money on the LAST upgrade and are hesitant about doing it again. If everyone was happy with the value for their money they wouldn't be objecting. This is the potential problem for MOTU. You lose people. I find this funny because there are rants here about the cost of Pro Tools and the same argument doesn't gain much ground. It has been expensive, but I made many times my investment back on it. So why doesn't everyone have a Pro Tools system, and why are you complaining about the price? I've made a lot of money on it! Seriously though, I don't even have the latest system because I don't feel it would pay off. Value.

But you've refuted your own position in this paragraph. Value is the point, and value is assessed comparatively, not absolutely. It is very reasonable to argue that it is ridiculous to pay so much for ProTools when a DP-based system can accomplish the same stuff for a quarter of the price. That's not a matter of opinion. Unless you believe you are under such pressure to validate yourself with clients that it's worth highway robbery to have the product with the word "Pro" in its trademarked name, the one that "everybody has." But this gets farther and farther from a true assessment of value.

[Splinter]

I'm with the poster who said, "It's not about the money... it's a matter of principal." Can I afford to buy it? Yes. The issue is MOTU never released a problem-free version of DP6 and now they are hitting users up for another $200. Had 6 been fixed and running smooth for the majority of people, the timeframe wouldn't be objectionable to pay for another upgrade. This takes me back to the point that MOTU has never been good at supporting their products even back to OS9. And if DP6 is mostly Cocoa now, why couldn't MOTU get it to work?

Look, I'm not against MOTU. I've been using Performer since '86 and working professionally with DP for many years. I just think MOTU has to do better - especially in this economy. Treat your loyal customers better. Provide needed updates. Communicate with users. Who can afford to lose customers in this economy? Good service goes a LONG way... you all know that.

I just think MOTU is sticking it to their faithful user base this time and I feel more like we're getting ripped off than benefitted by this version upgrade.

[jloeb]

But Splinter, are you even willing to try DP 6.02 with Snow Leopard?

[willheim]

I ordered the upgrade, and am going to pick up SL. As soon as I finish these two little jobs I am jumping in with both feet. I hope to be able to worry less about the stability of my rig, and to have increased speed.

I don't begrudge MOTU the money - I want to see them do well and stay in business for the long haul. They wouldn't be charging for the upgrade if they weren't in need of cash. I have never felt they were a greedy company.

It's a tough economy, give them a break.

[syntonica]

Unfortunately, the smaller software houses have to be like sharks and keep swimming. They can't all be Apple. Maybe there were some buggies in 6, maybe not. Computers and operating systems are such complex creatures anymore, it's hard to lay the blame on MOTU, Apple, or perhaps some unstable plug-in you may not even suspect. Either way, 6 is yesterday and 7 and is today. I am just grateful that there is plenty of choice in DAWs out there in what is really a tiny market and that Digi is no longer the only choice.

If DP is where you make your money, then write it off on your taxes and be thankful it's a small expense compared to other professions where one can spend hundreds or thousands per year on continuing education and certification. Or, likewise, go out and buy a really good mic and try not to grouse too much about the price.

If you are a hobbyist (like me, for the most part), you have to decide if the update is worth it to you. I used be bleeding edge when it came to software. Now, I am still on 5.13 (which has been working fine under Snow Leopard, but I did perform a clean install) and will be happy to shell out for 7 when the time comes. With all the new features of 6 and 7 put together, the $200 upgrade is a no-brainer. And it is still only $200 for the double update. Maybe sitting a version out is not a bad thing.

And to anyone who spends $200 on a date, I am free tonight! My cats say it's okay, they will let me go out for once.

[bongo_x]

But you've refuted your own position in this paragraph. Value is the point, and value is assessed comparatively, not absolutely. It is very reasonable to argue that it is ridiculous to pay so much for ProTools when a DP-based system can accomplish the same stuff for a quarter of the price. That's not a matter of opinion. Unless you believe you are under such pressure to validate yourself with clients that it's worth highway robbery to have the product with the word "Pro" in its trademarked name, the one that "everybody has." But this gets farther and farther from a true assessment of value.

You may have missed the point, or I may not have stated it very well (most likely). Applying your own situation to everyone and arguing that what's best for you is best for them, and then mocking them, is probably not a great idea. That's what I was saying. Or trying to.

For me, professionally, DP can not accomplish the same thing as PT for a quarter of the price. If it did I would do that. For my personal use I find that I like DP, so I use it for that. You're somewhat right, I don't think it's a matter of opinion, more a matter of situation. If you are going to make a lot of money from the DP7 upgrade, say more than $195, then it probably seems like a better deal to you than to someone who isn't.

bb

[Michael Canavan]

I'm with the poster who said, "It's not about the money... it's a matter of principal." Can I afford to buy it? Yes. The issue is MOTU never released a problem-free version of DP6 and now they are hitting users up for another $200. Had 6 been fixed and running smooth for the majority of people, the timeframe wouldn't be objectionable to pay for another upgrade.

The majority of users aren't online, there are plenty that are online who are not having problems with 6. Quite honestly some versions of every DAW I've owned have struck a small but vocal segment of the end users with problems. Even then, it's impossible to know how many are using newer versions of AU plug ins or MIDI/Audio drivers that are causing problems. It's easy to blame the end user, sure, but it's also easy for the end user to forget that x amount of plug ins have been upgraded/updated, OS etc. or the opposite, that people decide not to upgrade, and changes to AU spec etc. are not accounted for.
Short of it is this, Logic 7 was a dog for me, there were a lot of people that had no issue with it though. Live had issues that I ended up tracking down to a bad mouse driver and Battery 3.... Just because DP5 doesn't get as affected by a problem in no way means that problem won't affect DP6, and not every time is that MOTUs fault. They ad a feature and bad AU code breaks DP = DPs fault in the end users minds.
It's quite possible that MOTU open up a can of worms with AU side-chain support as many third party software comapanies are just implementing that.

I just think MOTU is sticking it to their faithful user base this time and I feel more like we're getting ripped off than benefitted by this version upgrade.

Don't upgrade then. It's perfectly fine to sit out upgrades, I jumped from 2.7 to 5, and now to 7.
I also use Live as much, if not more than DP, but I seriously think continually upgrading causes more hassle than it's worth.

[David Polich]

The price of the upgrade is less than a lot of plug-ins.
Really it is.

MOTU worked hard on this move to DP7. I think they deserve
our support.

If you can't afford it or don't want to out of principle, then
just don't. No one is forcing anyone to buy the software or the upgrades.

[James Steele]

You know, this all ties together with the other threads that bash this place because of how supposedly intolerant we are around here about criticism. Yet look around and you'll see all sorts of criticism here. My objection has been mindless bashing and also when I can sense that the poster basically is WRONG and hasn't configured their machine correctly, or even sometimes is probably using a pirated copy and then complaining that some feature isn't there because they don't know how to find it.

Bottom line is that all of you who bought DP 6 and didn't even TRY IT, at least when it got to version 6.02, are prime examples of why the hyperbole on this forum HAS to be be gotten under control. You've taken heed of the loud squawking by a relatively small number of people who drown out people who say "It's working fine here." And some are so fearful they don't try it at all. They tell their friends and associates they won't try it or install it. Fear strikes deep.

I had a friend over to my studio. He just bought a whiz bang 8-core Intel machine that I can't afford. I showed him DP 6.02 on my machine. He doesn't even go on forums all that much and he's been polluted with the misinformation I find... the HORRORS OF DP 6.02 [cue the blood-curdling scream SFX]. Of course he's never tried it. Won't order the upgrade. Talks foolishly about maybe he should get Logic instead, yet knowing what I know that would simply distract him further for no good reason. I showed him the Comp Tool which is just awesome and doesn't exist in DP 5.13.

Any way, I view the fact that so many didn't even install or TRY DP 6 as a real victory for the hysterical types that flood this board with the "OMG... This is a NIGHTMARE!!" posts. The sky is freakin' falling, isn't it? Will I pretend that DP 6.0 didn't have problems? No way! I mentioned the problems... knobs didn't work right in the UAD stuff, other issues. I even took MOTU to task very publicly about my unhappiness about having to downgrade to Tiger because DP was the ONLY DAW that had issues with *some* Native Instruments VIs on G5s running Leopard. But by the time 6.02 came around it was actally pretty damned useable. Perfect? Probably not. What DAW is?

So I'm ordering DP7 and I'm going to see if I can't impose on some people I know there to get mine out to me FAST so I can report on it. But I say that we wait and see what happens. Let's face it. If DP7 turns out to be very solid and reliable and they've licked whatever issues (both real and the fear-mongering ones) were in DP 6.02, most of us will be clamouring to buy it at $195.

For me, all I care about is that it's robust. I don't give a crap about the amp modeling stuff-- that's not how I work. I don't even have to listen to it to tell you it will sound like crap next to my hot-rodded 79 JMP head. On top of it, I'm on a G5 and if you think it's going to be any good for me to try and lower my buffer to 128 and "monitor through effects" to play an amp modeler in realtime? It'll KILL my G5. Yeah... I could track and reamp, but why? I got a killer amp and decent mics. But I digress.

Any way, to the fence sitters: wait for the reports. I have some information that I've gotten through the grapevine that making it MORE solid than 6.02 was a big priority... and I'm convinced enough that I'm getting it. And after those of us who buy it report back that it's good, you can jump in. But if you're waiting for 100% universally positive user reports before you timidly dip your toe in the water, you'll be waiting a long time. I'd suggest maybe you consider a lower threshold and tune out some of the alarmism this round, or better yet, try it yourself. I deleted 5.13 off my drive months ago FWIW.

[jloeb]

You may have missed the point, or I may not have stated it very well (most likely). Applying your own situation to everyone and arguing that what's best for you is best for them, and then mocking them, is probably not a great idea. That's what I was saying. Or trying to.

That's certainly true.

[ramadev]

I'm in; I just ordered DP7 (along with MOTU's online offer of MX4 and Unisyn 2.11 for $99 each when ordering DP7). It'll be here in a couple of days I hope.

I agree with Shooshie about the long, hard transition to Cocoa, and I believe that things will definitely get better from here.

And I'm happy to support MOTU. Although I just bought Guitar Rig 3 a couple weeks ago, just days before NI discontinued it, I'm still happy and excited about this new version of DP.

Now I gotta go close my eyes...man this was a long thread to read this morning!