Ok...
Then why don't you suggest something that is a real solution.
Sunsinger
Mach Five version 2 Sit In
Moderator: James Steele
Well, it's not my problem. Not sure why you'd volley it back to me.sunsinger wrote:Ok...
Then why don't you suggest something that is a real solution.
Sunsinger
But...
Why don't you talk to them. They'll likely be at NAMM in a few weeks. Bug their reps face-to-face.
Write them letters.
Call them again and again.
That's just off the top of my head.
I mean, if you think Unicornation posts are your best recourse for action, stick with it. But if you hope to force their hand on the issue (or at least coax it), try a hand connected to the source.
Best of luck.
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garymadi
If James is irritated or put-off by MOTU's failure to reply to a customer except with cryptic answers when that customer is inquiring about a legitimate concern, regarding delivery of a promised product, he does not support a free and open discussion of viable problems and becomes a supporter of MOTU's failure to deliver as promised on Mach 5 2.0.
The issue you raised regarding being hung-up on a legal matter is conjecture on your part.
Your tolerance of MOTU's failure to deliver, or for a factual explanation of the restricting issues have been to my experience the very behaviour manufactureres count on for increased profit as they manufacture, introduce, and deliver new profitable products. This is a ploy, I believe indicating a shift in product delivery priority from what was previously promised to Mach5 owners to a profitable introduction of new products during the period the Mach 5 update was promised.
MOTU has made more money by postponing Mach 5 2.0 and introducing new products to the market place.
There is no profit in a free upgrade.
Check the MOTU job lisings, see if any job requirements would facilitate the Mach 5 2.0 introduction.
Meanwhile we have money invested in a product with a promised upgrade that has not been delivered as and may not ever come to fruition.
It's my money, I bought Mach5 on a promise MOTU comitted to two years ago and has not delivered.
Your position is regarding James is undefensible and weak. If James doesn't like these postings then he does not support the consumers, or the right to expect what was promised. James is not the terminal, Jim Cooper and Les Quindepan shoud be taking note, if they are still employed by MOTU.
The issue you raised regarding being hung-up on a legal matter is conjecture on your part.
Your tolerance of MOTU's failure to deliver, or for a factual explanation of the restricting issues have been to my experience the very behaviour manufactureres count on for increased profit as they manufacture, introduce, and deliver new profitable products. This is a ploy, I believe indicating a shift in product delivery priority from what was previously promised to Mach5 owners to a profitable introduction of new products during the period the Mach 5 update was promised.
MOTU has made more money by postponing Mach 5 2.0 and introducing new products to the market place.
There is no profit in a free upgrade.
Check the MOTU job lisings, see if any job requirements would facilitate the Mach 5 2.0 introduction.
Meanwhile we have money invested in a product with a promised upgrade that has not been delivered as and may not ever come to fruition.
It's my money, I bought Mach5 on a promise MOTU comitted to two years ago and has not delivered.
Your position is regarding James is undefensible and weak. If James doesn't like these postings then he does not support the consumers, or the right to expect what was promised. James is not the terminal, Jim Cooper and Les Quindepan shoud be taking note, if they are still employed by MOTU.
I'll let James respond to that -- if he cares too.garymadi wrote:If James is irritated or put-off by MOTU's failure to reply to a customer except with cryptic answers when that customer is inquiring about a legitimate concern, regarding delivery of a promised product, he does not support a free and open discussion of viable problems and becomes a supporter of MOTU's failure to deliver as promised on Mach 5 2.0.
True. I said it was a hunch based on some USB marketing. I have no idea what MOTU's strategies are. I was just throwing out a wild guess. Could be wrong, sure.The issue you raised regarding being hung-up on a legal matter is conjecture on your part.
How do you figure?Your tolerance of MOTU's failure to deliver, or for a factual explanation of the restricting issues have been to my experience the very behaviour manufactureres count on for increased profit as they manufacture, introduce, and deliver new profitable products.
What does my desire to obtain MachFive 2 have to do with the sales of other MOTU products, successful or not? Who says I even desire to obtain M5 2?
MOTU's failure to deliver M5 2 doesn't wound me one way or the other. There are other samplers on the market. And I already have M5 1 which works fine.
How do you know? Who's to say whether having M5 2 out would or wouldn't have garnered more MOTU profits than MSI and Ethno. Do you know sales numbers on these products? Do you know profit margins on them? You're just guessing.This is a ploy, I believe indicating a shift in product delivery priority from what was previously promised to Mach5 owners to a profitable introduction of new products during the period the Mach 5 update was promised. MOTU has made more money by postponing Mach 5 2.0 and introducing new products to the market place.
Look, I'm not MOTU's lawyer or PR guy. My point is nobody here is. We're just users who post to help each out. And that includes site owner James.Check the MOTU job lisings, see if any job requirements would facilitate the Mach 5 2.0 introduction. Meanwhile we have money invested in a product with a promised upgrade that has not been delivered as and may not ever come to fruition. It's my money, I bought Mach5 on a promise MOTU comitted to two years ago and has not delivered.
He doesn't support the customers. He's not customer support. He doesn't work for MOTU. He has no affiliation with them.Your position is regarding James is undefensible and weak. If James doesn't like these postings then he does not support the consumers, or the right to expect what was promised.
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Wow, you guys are passionate about this MachFive 2 thing! I'll throw two cents in:
1- From a "legal" standpoint, you will not get a judge to accept a case, let alone a class action suit, for a company's failure to upgrade a product. Period. You will be wasting your money on a lawyer (unless you go pro se, in which case you will stand less of a chance of success.) But don't take my word for it. Search the case histories for a similar case. Let us know if you find one.
2- But on a more practical point, what is it about MachFive 2 that you desire so much to be this passionate about? Stand alone functionality? Compatibility? Is MachFive 1.2.3 so disfunctional for you that is is useless?
Well, let's assume the latter is the case. Read your user agreement with MOTU and everyother software manufacturer. To some extent they all say that (to paraphrase) 'this software may not do what you expect it to and if/when it does not, we are not responsible for any losses or peripheral losses."
PLEASE, don't go flaming me for being the messenger! I don't like that language either, but those are the ground rules when buying software. Now if you cannot get past that in a court of law (and you probably cannot) how do you then expect to get past the unwritten promise that a particular update will be released by a certain date?
Finally, if MOTU released MachFive 2.0 and it was full of bugs, how happy would you be? I don't know if it is a business decision to release Ethno first, a software issue wherein the program is not ready, or a business problem with a developer, an infringement of tradmark or patent, or whatever. And frankly, it is really none of our business.
If they release it they release it . Whining, threatening to sue and irritating people who attempt to respond to your desrires is not going to change a thing. To quote Cher in "Moonstruck": GET OVER IT!
1- From a "legal" standpoint, you will not get a judge to accept a case, let alone a class action suit, for a company's failure to upgrade a product. Period. You will be wasting your money on a lawyer (unless you go pro se, in which case you will stand less of a chance of success.) But don't take my word for it. Search the case histories for a similar case. Let us know if you find one.
2- But on a more practical point, what is it about MachFive 2 that you desire so much to be this passionate about? Stand alone functionality? Compatibility? Is MachFive 1.2.3 so disfunctional for you that is is useless?
Well, let's assume the latter is the case. Read your user agreement with MOTU and everyother software manufacturer. To some extent they all say that (to paraphrase) 'this software may not do what you expect it to and if/when it does not, we are not responsible for any losses or peripheral losses."
PLEASE, don't go flaming me for being the messenger! I don't like that language either, but those are the ground rules when buying software. Now if you cannot get past that in a court of law (and you probably cannot) how do you then expect to get past the unwritten promise that a particular update will be released by a certain date?
Finally, if MOTU released MachFive 2.0 and it was full of bugs, how happy would you be? I don't know if it is a business decision to release Ethno first, a software issue wherein the program is not ready, or a business problem with a developer, an infringement of tradmark or patent, or whatever. And frankly, it is really none of our business.
If they release it they release it . Whining, threatening to sue and irritating people who attempt to respond to your desrires is not going to change a thing. To quote Cher in "Moonstruck": GET OVER IT!
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monkey man
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Unless I'm mistaken, the purpose of this thread is to 'ave a laugh and a party while we wait.
Bitchin's been done to death elsewhere.
I believe this thread's meant to be an escape of sorts from it.
When all seems lost, some pray; we're havin' a sit-in.
Dang, some of us are no doubt prayin' too!
We know it's coming.
We also know we have no control over it's release date.
As I've said previously, this is a sit-in, not a bitch-in.
Many Unicorns have contributed creative energy to the thread in an effort to achieve some sort of positive vibe about the whole thing.
As this is the only place on earth this is happening, I beg some of you to consider taking your angst, belligerence and threats elsewhere.
Many a bitchin' thread awaits your perusal and it's revival.
Alternatively, one could start a fresh new thread.
May I suggest the titles, "Mach V update-angst reaches boiling point." and "Mach V - Vapourware?"
That way you wouldn't make a 12 page thread of mirth and wit look like a bitch-fest to the casual observer.
Do what you want to do; I just think it would be a shame to see the happy vibe ruined by a lack of sensitivity for the environment one might have just stumbled upon.
Back to chanting.
I'll do it quietly as it's Machy-positive.
Perhaps, when it's safe to extol the virtues of all things Machy, I'll burst into full-voice.
Meantime, others are quietly bursting into flames.
MM
Bitchin's been done to death elsewhere.
I believe this thread's meant to be an escape of sorts from it.
When all seems lost, some pray; we're havin' a sit-in.
Dang, some of us are no doubt prayin' too!
We know it's coming.
We also know we have no control over it's release date.
As I've said previously, this is a sit-in, not a bitch-in.
Many Unicorns have contributed creative energy to the thread in an effort to achieve some sort of positive vibe about the whole thing.
As this is the only place on earth this is happening, I beg some of you to consider taking your angst, belligerence and threats elsewhere.
Many a bitchin' thread awaits your perusal and it's revival.
Alternatively, one could start a fresh new thread.
May I suggest the titles, "Mach V update-angst reaches boiling point." and "Mach V - Vapourware?"
That way you wouldn't make a 12 page thread of mirth and wit look like a bitch-fest to the casual observer.
Do what you want to do; I just think it would be a shame to see the happy vibe ruined by a lack of sensitivity for the environment one might have just stumbled upon.
Back to chanting.
I'll do it quietly as it's Machy-positive.
Perhaps, when it's safe to extol the virtues of all things Machy, I'll burst into full-voice.
Meantime, others are quietly bursting into flames.
MM
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Thanks, Nicky. Things did seem to get a tad serious there-- "lawyers"? That's heavy stuff. No disrespect to anyone's frustration, tho. But, I do like the idea of having a grin about things that might otherwise worry us... it brings balance to the Force and to our beloved U-nation.
I also think such seriousness might be even better served and arguably better founded once we hear what is said about v2 at NAMM next month. This has been mentioned before by a few folks. Those whose work might have been held up by v2 have already found other solutions, and at this point even something like K2 would have paid for itself a few times over since the first M5v2 announcement was made.
But I do feel for those who are fortunate enough to have a MacPro and cannot access M5 at all. That is a genuine brick wall which leaves these users hung out to dry with no choices but to start over by investing in another sampler or to keep waiting. It's not at all clear why v2 has been delayed for so long, but I would think that a UB v1.x would be a nice interim solution. The problem must be serious, and I have to trust that what MOTU has done is the best of all solutions available to them presently.
I also would hope that MOTU is aware that what is more difficult than waiting for a desired software update is the near-total silence that goes along with it. For my part, I'd be elated to just hear something more than "it's on its way".
If the issue is technical, it would be nice to know what aspect of UB might be at issue-- or what aspect of M5 itself may be a bigger challenge to overcome than they expected. I've always imagined it to be some ghost in the machine that keeps rearing its ugly head during extensive testing.
But, it occurs to me that there might be something legal at issue, ironically. Such silences and long delays are typical where legalities are concerned.
In any case we are end users, and MOTU is a middle entity in the bigger scheme. What holds back those in need of v2 is clearly holding up MOTU as well.
I also think such seriousness might be even better served and arguably better founded once we hear what is said about v2 at NAMM next month. This has been mentioned before by a few folks. Those whose work might have been held up by v2 have already found other solutions, and at this point even something like K2 would have paid for itself a few times over since the first M5v2 announcement was made.
But I do feel for those who are fortunate enough to have a MacPro and cannot access M5 at all. That is a genuine brick wall which leaves these users hung out to dry with no choices but to start over by investing in another sampler or to keep waiting. It's not at all clear why v2 has been delayed for so long, but I would think that a UB v1.x would be a nice interim solution. The problem must be serious, and I have to trust that what MOTU has done is the best of all solutions available to them presently.
I also would hope that MOTU is aware that what is more difficult than waiting for a desired software update is the near-total silence that goes along with it. For my part, I'd be elated to just hear something more than "it's on its way".
If the issue is technical, it would be nice to know what aspect of UB might be at issue-- or what aspect of M5 itself may be a bigger challenge to overcome than they expected. I've always imagined it to be some ghost in the machine that keeps rearing its ugly head during extensive testing.
But, it occurs to me that there might be something legal at issue, ironically. Such silences and long delays are typical where legalities are concerned.
In any case we are end users, and MOTU is a middle entity in the bigger scheme. What holds back those in need of v2 is clearly holding up MOTU as well.
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monkey man
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Thanks for acknowledging my effort, Frods.
I took the liberty as another page or two of griping might've deemed the thread, as we know it, dead.
Perhaps the creation of a new library's playing a part in Machy's delay.
MOTU would've been all-too aware of end-user dissatisfaction with the aforementioned.
I've always reckoned they'll compensate for this shortcoming with interest.
After all, the only real criticism I seem to remember seeing in the numerous reviews I read of Machy 1 was that of the all-too-thin on the ground factory-supplied library.
Assuming I'm correct, we may well see a factory set that's sufficient for the needs of many, including a fiscally-challenged ape I know.
I too feel the pain of intel users.
I can only assume MOTU made the call that they'd sort this/make an announcement by/at NAMM.
A UB v1.2.3 or whatever may not have been practical, given the amount of work to be done and the time-frame involved.
The video games industry just saw a similar decision from the developer of my favourite game, the Gran Turismo series.
Polyphony Digital just announced that Gran Turismo HD will be a free download, in several increments, as they've decided to dedicate all their resources to GT 5.
With the PS3 out, they're no doubt feeling the pressure to bring the next major incarnation forth, and have sacrificed an imminent intermediate release, along with associated revenues, to ensure a higher-quality product in the long run.
I'd like to think that, given the same set of circumstances, this is how MOTU would act.
Take care, bro.
Nicky
I took the liberty as another page or two of griping might've deemed the thread, as we know it, dead.
Perhaps the creation of a new library's playing a part in Machy's delay.
MOTU would've been all-too aware of end-user dissatisfaction with the aforementioned.
I've always reckoned they'll compensate for this shortcoming with interest.
After all, the only real criticism I seem to remember seeing in the numerous reviews I read of Machy 1 was that of the all-too-thin on the ground factory-supplied library.
Assuming I'm correct, we may well see a factory set that's sufficient for the needs of many, including a fiscally-challenged ape I know.
I too feel the pain of intel users.
I can only assume MOTU made the call that they'd sort this/make an announcement by/at NAMM.
A UB v1.2.3 or whatever may not have been practical, given the amount of work to be done and the time-frame involved.
The video games industry just saw a similar decision from the developer of my favourite game, the Gran Turismo series.
Polyphony Digital just announced that Gran Turismo HD will be a free download, in several increments, as they've decided to dedicate all their resources to GT 5.
With the PS3 out, they're no doubt feeling the pressure to bring the next major incarnation forth, and have sacrificed an imminent intermediate release, along with associated revenues, to ensure a higher-quality product in the long run.
I'd like to think that, given the same set of circumstances, this is how MOTU would act.
Take care, bro.
Nicky
Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
MOTU DP8.07, MachFive 3.2.1, MIDI Express XT, 24I/O
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garymadi
Chrispick
My position is drawn from personal experience working for a musical instrument manufacturer. I've been present when decisions were made for the reasons I previously posted.
I've contacted MOTU directly a number of times with nothing offered except "keep checking back on our web site" or "Mach5 is under development".
It's my money and I'd be glad if they would refund the purchase price.
That would put an end to it.
I personally haven't addressed a comment to you until now and I agree, it's not your concern.
The speculatory remark that you "threw out" only adds confusion.
Please don't feel obligated to reply.
I've contacted MOTU directly a number of times with nothing offered except "keep checking back on our web site" or "Mach5 is under development".
It's my money and I'd be glad if they would refund the purchase price.
That would put an end to it.
I personally haven't addressed a comment to you until now and I agree, it's not your concern.
The speculatory remark that you "threw out" only adds confusion.
Please don't feel obligated to reply.
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MIDI Life Crisis
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I would LOVE to get a faster Intel Mac someday.... like when the compatibility issues are ironed out. But it seems to me that a big part of the problem has been caused by Apple, not MOTU. It was Apple who went to Intel, and if it takers MOTU along time to re-write the software (assuming that is the issue - or one of the issues) I don't think we can come down too hard on MOTU for it. Apple has forced everyone's hand with the shift to Intel. Not everything will work under Rosetta so we will have to wait for the update.monkey man wrote:I too feel the pain of intel users....Take care, bro.
Nicky
As a long time MOTU customer, I would add that my loyalty has been rewarded many times over with several of the free updates to DP that added incredible features (at no extra cost) as well as great (free) updates to MX4 and the updates to MachFive from version 1.0. They kept their word and more in those instances, and I think they will continue to do so. With NAMM on their heels, I am sure some of you will get a better idea of the issues (or new timeline)
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Yeah-- that's what I was saying. A UB version of any kind at this point would fill in the gaps for a lot of people.RCory wrote:Hey if an Intel build of the current version was released, I'd be a happy camper... err... happier camper...
Ah, well.
Help me, Obiwan Kenobi. You're my only hope.
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Is this what happens when an Avatar has a multiple personality?Frodo wrote: Help me, Obiwan Kenobi. You're my only hope.
Star Wars and LOTR... where would we be without them in our culture?
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I am currently waiting for the update of Version 2 just kike all of you but instead of complaining about the company that gave me my favorite sampler I'm busy making music with it. Mach 5 does what it is supposed to and is used on everything I do. An update would be cool but so would a lot of things.