New Mac Pro Announced

[HCMarkus]

28 Core 7,1
Per Apple Site:

5.1x as many Amp Designer plugins as 12 core 6,1

28 Core 7,1 will cost maybe $15k? How many $300 12 core 5,1s would one need to get everything you need via VEP?... Just sayin'.

If money is no object, the 7,1 will reign supreme. If budget is an issue, maybe not. So, sure, if one of my tunes blows up beyond my wildest dreams, I'll get me a kick ass 7,1. Otherwise, I'll just keep on working. I am very happy running a 12 core 5,1 for the foreseeable future. As long as my DAW software supports Sierra, or maybe Mojave, any OS "limitation" is not a limitation.

As far as T2 causing USB audio interface issues... who is gonna' spring for a $6k++ computer and not use Thunderbolt?

[dix]

I can't tell. Are the new Mac Pro's processors user-upgradable? I didn't hear that specifically in the Keynote, but the way it's listed on the Apple site it implies that they might be.

...no one seems to have direct knowledge, but I've seen speculation that a fully loaded new Mac Pro could be as much as $35,000.

[mikehalloran]

I can't tell. Are the new Mac Pro's processors user-upgradable? I didn't hear that specifically in the Keynote, but the way it's listed on the Apple site it implies that they might be.

There are videos showing that the iMac Pro can be upgraded with off-the-shelf Intel CPUs. No reason to think that the Mac Pro will be any different.

...no one seems to have direct knowledge, but I've seen speculation that a fully loaded new Mac Pro could be as much as $35,000.

Since the competition can cost as much as $150,000 + monitor, I bet not. Ok, there are a few big differences—the top of the line Maya boxes are using pairs of the Platinum 8180 @ $11,000 ea to get 56 cores. Apple will probably use the 3175X with a $treet of $3k—a quite similar CPU but it can't be ganged with another 28 core. This means that 28 is the max with the first release (I expect higher available core counts within two years). Even still, I think that $35K for a tricked out 7.1 is wishful thinking.

This guy speculates $50K. Without having any idea the price of some of the hot-rod options, all I can say is maybe...
https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much- ... 8614594477

But knowing what's out there now, it's not too hard to come up with estimates for one of the middle ground machines.

The 256GB SSD storage minimum tells us it's the same media as the Mini as are the 512G/1T/2TB options. The iMac Pro uses the same SSDs but 1/2/4TB. Except for the 256GB, these are pairs set up in RAID 0 (sort of) controlled by the T2. The upgrade prices should be 512G-$200, 1T—$600, 2TB—$1,200, 4TB—$2,400

2666MHz DDR4 RAM — again, same as the Mini and iMac Pro. Upgrade prices from Apple should be $400/2,000/5,200 for 64/128/256GB respectively. With 12 slots available instead of 4 for the iMP, it's easy to do the math. OWC has the 64GB modules — 768GB (64G x12) will run $6,837. The 24 & 28 Core take faster RAM and can handle 128G sticks as referenced in the article.

GPU for the base model is the 580x — really is enough for DP. The Vega Pro II and Pro II Duo have been announced but they won't be inexpensive. Based on what is out there now, I'll be surprised if the price is much less than $2,000 for the Radeon Pro Duo or under $4,000 for the Radeon Pro Duo II, perhaps more.

Based on the above, the 16 core Mac Pro that specs out close to my 14 core iMP should run around $9,400 + monitor. BTW, no one is saying that you need the new $5,000 monitor if you aren't doing really high end graphics, film or animation. Stay with the 580x and a 5K LG ($1,300 for the 27"–$1,500 for the 34") and it comes in under $9,000 by my estimate.
https://www.lg.com/us/4k-monitors

My iMP, by comparison is $9,749 or $8,289 in the Refurb Store (14 Core 128G RAM 2T SSD Vega 64). I was about to spend around $7,300+$675 tax on a Refurb (10 core 64G 2T Vega 56) when I found mine used for less including AppleCare.



I posted a video awhile back that compared a 12 core 6.1 Mac Pro and a 10 core iMac Pro. The file was 150 and 300 tracks of Logic Pro, each with a an instance of a VI and two CPU intensive plugins. The 6.1 could handle it but there was some track stealing going on. The iMP wasn't breathing hard. The keynote showed the new New Mac Pro running 1,000 tracks of VIs in the next version of Logic but we don't know how beefy the MP running the demo is.

I don't think the 7.1 is overpriced at all. Pretty certain I'll not need one but never say never, right?

[mothra]

I can't tell. Are the new Mac Pro's processors user-upgradable? I didn't hear that specifically in the Keynote, but the way it's listed on the Apple site it implies that they might be.

...no one seems to have direct knowledge, but I've seen speculation that a fully loaded new Mac Pro could be as much as $35,000.

Unless they specifically mentioned it, theyre as upgradeable as they've ever been (as in, Apple has never allowed you to do this, even though its possible). What matters is whether you can get to the cpu or not (ever done work inside an iMac or MBP?). Apple doesn't get special CPUs, theyre the same ones you and I can go buy from any retailer, they always have been PowerPCs and all. The exception is the one model of Mac Pro you have to pull the lids off the cpus for, but those are still regular old Xeons.

[dix]

Unless they specifically mentioned it, theyre as upgradeable as they've ever been (as in, Apple has never allowed you to do this, even though its possible)

That's what I'm wondering. Will Apple allow this on the nnMPs? If I were to buy an 8-core, would I be able to upgrade it by simply buying a cpu with more cores, or faster cpu from Apple, or whoever as you would with RAM and storage.

And what are we nicknaming the the 2019 Mac Pros? If MPs are cheese graters, and nMPs are trashcans, what will the 2019 Mac Pros be referred to as? ...just "2019 Mac Pro" would be way too practical!

[HCMarkus]

PPMP... Potato Peeler Mac Pro

or

nCMP... new Cheesegrater Mac Pro

[mikehalloran]

The 7.1 works for me. nNMP for new NEW Mac Pro is a bit cumbersome.

Anyway, like the cheese graters, you can just open up to get inside. The keynote showed the door open with the PCIe and DIMM slots laid out for easy accessibility.

The biggest hindrance to replacing the CPU (or anything else) in the iMP is the exposed power supply—not for the inexperienced as a mistake can send sparks flying. Someone posted on YouTube screwing up while trying to show how to do it—screen slipped and took out everything.

Anyway, once you get to it, replacing the CPU is a straight swap which was a surprise to the first few who did it. The only reason more aren’t doing it is because there’s no cost savings over Apple’s BTO pricing. As used iMPs hit the market, this will become more common. Might as well upgrade the RAM while in there.

[dix]

PPMP... Potato Peeler Mac Pro

or

nCMP... new Cheesegrater Mac Pro

I thought of a friend of mine with trypophobia when I first saw the new Mac Pros. Trypophobia is a strong aversion to patterns of repeating holes (yes, a real thing). I googled, and sure enough the 2019 MP grill design is triggering trypophobics big time. For this reason I propose tMP as a nickname.

[HCMarkus]

PPMP... Potato Peeler Mac Pro

or

nCMP... new Cheesegrater Mac Pro

I thought of a friend of mine with trypophobia when I first saw the new Mac Pros. Trypophobia is a strong aversion to patterns of repeating holes (yes, a real thing). I googled, and sure enough the 2019 MP grill design is triggering trypophobics big time. For this reason I propose tMP as a nickname.

I know it is a completely different thing, but your mention of trypophobia reminded me of this old tune, first released in 1947 by Les Brown...

Triskaidekaphobia
by Bobby Troup

Triskaidekaphobia
I got Triskaidekaphobia
And Triskaidekaphobia
Has got me

I open doors for claustrophobia
And I wear glasses for myopia
But Triskaidekaphobia
Won't set me free

Now One two three
They don't bother me
And neither do four five six and seven
But I can't reveal
The way that I feel
When I hear the number
That's two plus eleven...

My late father loved singing this. Never failed to crack me up at "two plus eleven." Fookin' Brilliant!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

[mikehalloran]

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

This isn’t?

[mothra]

That's what I'm wondering. Will Apple allow this on the nnMPs? If I were to buy an 8-core, would I be able to upgrade it by simply buying a cpu with more cores, or faster cpu from Apple, or whoever as you would with RAM and storage.

And what are we nicknaming the the 2019 Mac Pros? If MPs are cheese graters, and nMPs are trashcans, what will the 2019 Mac Pros be referred to as? ...just "2019 Mac Pro" would be way too practical!

Im sure we'll be able to do it, just like any of em. They've got to make them accessible for service so its just a matter of waiting out for someone to post the procedure online hehe. Things like the MBPs and iMacs (and iPods and iPhones) have to be taken apart and put back together in a certain order so its always better to wait a bit. This is the reason I always tell people with those machines to 'just take it to Apple' heh. Removing the display from an iMac is kinda scary even if you have suction cups and know what you're doing. Those paper thin connectors for the hard drives inside are really really fragile too. Luckily the towers from the blue G3 onward were fairly simple thanks to the new case design. Getting to things in some of the older beige and before cases SUCKED! That would be pretty cool if its as easy as the cheese graters though. I love that I can just pop the side off and slide out the bottom tray to get to the CPU and RAM. That stupid housing around it inside the case was a pain when I swapped the Airport and Bluetooth module for newer ones though!

[mikehalloran]

Removing the display from an iMac is kinda scary even if you have suction cups and know what you're doing...

The hardest service I ever had to do was to replace those PRAM batteries in the candy shell G3 iMacs without cutting my hands. I got it down to them being scratched up but never less than that.

Intel iMacs scary? No at all. I do them one-handed because of my handicap. An SSD and battery swap on a 2011 iMac takes 15 minutes unless the glass is really dirty. With two hands and practice, that time could be cut in half. Early 2009 and earlier take longer because the RAM and bezel have to be removed first— 30 minutes. Late 2009–10 have the NVRAM on the back of the motherboard so it and the screen have to come out— 30–45 minutes. 2012-on involves cleaning the tape residue out of the track and off the screen (naphtha is my friend) so an hour is about right.

I’m not scared of the iMac Pro but wouldn’t do one without a two-handed helper who is good at following directions. Screen removal is the same as any other late iMac but dissembly is way different because of the twin fans and exposed power supply. The RAM is in DIMM slots and you can get it from OWC ($2,279 for 256GB). Off the shelf Xenon multicores bolt right on and there’s no firmware that won’t be taken are of when you boot from a USB High Sierra installer (surprised everyone).

Those who’ve done the CPU and RAM upgrades save around $9–$18. It turns out that Apple BTO prices are the same as $treet. Who knew? The advantage is that Apple specs these CPUs at a lower clock speed than the retail version. It turns out that the retail version normally runs a bit faster when tested. Since Intel grades these as they come out of the oven, it is not surprising that Apple pays less for those that meet their slower spec—I’ve not seen a difference greater than 10% which in the real world running apps, is nothing. Since we know what new Xenon processors will be shipping in the 7.1 Mac Pro, there is no reason to believe this will be any different—other than you can get it it, of course.

The fubar video showed an easily preventable mistake that took out the display, controller and motherboard when the screen slipped, touched the exposed power supply and shorted out a large capacitor. These guys were making a demonstration video and the sparks flew when he was putting it back together. I give them credit for posting it anyway. There was a series of follow up videos detailing the hell these guys went through trying to obtain replacement parts—we’re talking Dante’s 7th layer here.

[bayswater]

Intel iMacs scary? No at all. I do them one-handed because of my handicap. An SSD and battery swap on a 2011 iMac takes 15 minutes unless the glass is really dirty. With two hands and practice, that time could be cut in half. Early 2009 and earlier take longer because the RAM and bezel have to be removed first— 30 minutes

I'm curious about battery replacement. I've been expecting to have to replace the battery on my late 2009 27" iMac for some time. It requires removing the screen etc, but I was ready to do it, and put in an SSD and 32G RAM at the same time. But here we are in mid 2019, and it still works normally. I've moved audio work to a new Mini, so it's no longer critical, but what does the iMac actually do when the battery fails?

[mikehalloran]

but what does the iMac actually do when the battery fails?

The most common symptom is black screen or weird patterns. You'll think the GPU died or went completely haywire.

It used to be that you just lost your settings and the AC cord kept everything going. That's still the common wisdom, right? A B&W G3 was the first time I saw the black screen—popped one of those 3.6V 1/2A cells in and it came back to life. If the battery is just removed, the symptoms go away also but no settings are saved. I learned a long time ago that a bad battery was often worse than no battery. When this issue comes up on MacRumors, I'll post, Replace the battery first, then look at the GPUif there's still a problem — which usually does the trick. Battery replacement, like SSD does not require screen removal on a 2011 or 20/"24" iMac.

Anyway, the 2011s are having this issue in droves. Worse, these did have a GPU issue caused by those hotter than hell WD Blacks. The fix is to bake the GPU to reflow the solder and throw in a nice, cool running SSD to fix the actual cause.

Back to your 2009 and my 2010. The screen and motherboard have to come out to access the NVRAM battery. Tip: take some whiteout and polarize all the tiny connectors. They only go back one way but it's hard to see which way that is. On the motherboard, a dot on one side that gets both sides of the connector. On the inline, a touch on the wires of one side is all you need. If replacing the SSD only, it's not necessary as the screen does not come out and you remove the mic/camera cable from the motherboard to get enough room to work — that's easy to see how it reconnects.

As for the SSD temp sensor, a system pull optical sensor is a few bucks on eBay. OWC makes a 2009-10 in line sensor but (dirty little secret) Apple shorted the temp sensor lead on the 2010s with SSDs (shhhhh! They think no one knows). The 2009 was never offered with an SSD.

As for the battery, if you have an SSD in there, you don't need the high heat BR2032. A CR2032 is electrically identical.

[bayswater]

The most common symptom is black screen or weird patterns. You'll think the GPU died or went completely haywire.

Well that hasn't happened in 10 years. That's some battery. The HD was replaced under a recall, so maybe they replaced the battery then, although even that was quite a while ago.

Thanks for the tips on replacing the battery. I suppose I'll have to do it sometime.