Baffled, Bothered, and Bewildered by MIDI Issue -- Help!

[SMS]

Yeah, Babz- the way you've configured your pipe, it's seeing INPUT 4 on your MTP, which is the Alesis' output.

[SMS]

would there be a way to loop the MIDI data back from one track and record it to another for viewing? As long as Patch Thru is off it should be possible.

You could use a cable on your MTP or maybe use virtual MIDI ports

[Babz]

in DP:

• route a MIDI track to "MidiPipe Input 1"

Thanks! That was the part I was missing! Didn't realize I could assign MidiPipe as an input in DP.

So this is what I get (regardless of automation enabled or disabled). Basically Volume and Panning. Somehow this is messing w/ the Alesis. How do I get DP to not send out Volume and Pan to this track? Or how do I get the Alesis to ignore Volume and Pan CC?



Babz

[SMS]

Yeah. That's exactly what I saw.

[SMS]

I'm guessing you're using the internal sounds, so don't want to block all controllers...

You can try using a MIDI plug in on the track to reassign them to something else, maybe poly pressure which likely is ignored on the Alesis.

Odd there's not a direct way to selectively block controllers, even in MidiPipe.

Got to be a bug in the Alesis. Can't think of any reason those controllers should turn local on.

[SMS]

The MIDI Solutions Event Processor box will do what you need, but it would be nice to still be able to use the Mixing Board in DP to change Vol and Pan.

[Babz]

I'm guessing you're using the internal sounds, so don't want to block all controllers...

Yes, it's only an issue w/ the Alesis's internal sounds (i.e., all is fine w/ VIs and other hardware synths). Ironically, I probably won't even use the internal Alesis sounds very often, but these kind of odd MIDI mysteries drive me crazy and I just can't stand not knowing what's going on.

Odd there's not a direct way to selectively block controllers, even in MidiPipe.

Studying the DP manual, I think I have finally come up with a viable solution. The Automation Setup window (Setup->Automation Setup) provides extensive options for enabling and disabling automation, both globally and on individual tracks. I was able to turn off Volume and Pan automation for just the Alesis MIDI track like this (which solves the problem):

Got to be a bug in the Alesis. Can't think of any reason those controllers should turn local on.

It may be that it just "sounds" similar to local on note doubling. Something definitely gets louder and the panning sounds all weird. Mostly I've been testing with the same preset on the Alesis "TrueStereo", a piano sound. Whatever is happening makes it sound awful, but I may have mistaken it for note doubling. I'm still searching for a way to disable reception of Volume and Pan on the Alesis, so I don't have to do it within DP.

Thanks so much everyone for your help and support on this. This is a truly strange one, and I'm not sure I fully understand what is going on, but I've made a lot of progress.

Best,
Babz

[Babz]

Update:

Upon further testing, it appears it is only the Pan (cc10) controller that is causing the problem.

What appears to be happening is that hitting Play in DP causes it to send out cc10 information that is somehow altering the sound of the Alesis. It makes it sound kind of like note doubling. It sounds almost as if it is taking the Alesis stereo signal and doubling it to both channels.

I have to wonder if this is a bug. Could it be that DP is somehow sending out some sort of "corrupt" cc10 data?

Babz

[Babz]

OK, just spoke to MOTU tech support about this, and it seems Event Chasing is part of what has added to the confusion for me on this. As of DP 9, MOTU changed it so that Event Chasing is enabled by default, so that is what is causing the CC7 and CC10 upon playback.

Now what's going on inside the Alesis when it receives a CC10 message is another matter for research, but at least now I know what is going on with DP and why it is sending the CC7 and CC10 message, even when automation is disabled. This also explains a weird jump-in-volume issue I was getting last month when I was working with a Yamaha MOXF6 keyboard synth.

Best,
Babz

[SMS]

I wonder if the Alesis is responding by panning both sides of a stereo patch to the center? Maybe it's doing some kind of psuedo stereo by panning the same sound hard L & R with a slight delay? Try changing the Pan control on the mixer strip and see what affect that has on the sound.

This may be as simple as just using a different sound on the Alesis.

Don't you love how trying to fix one issue (your dead controller) can give you days of frustration?

[Shooshie]

Update:

Upon further testing, it appears it is only the Pan (cc10) controller that is causing the problem.

What appears to be happening is that hitting Play in DP causes it to send out cc10 information that is somehow altering the sound of the Alesis. It makes it sound kind of like note doubling. It sounds almost as if it is taking the Alesis stereo signal and doubling it to both channels.

I have to wonder if this is a bug. Could it be that DP is somehow sending out some sort of "corrupt" cc10 data?

Babz

Could it be some kind of chorusing effect? Pan side-to-side?

[Babz]

I wonder if the Alesis is responding by panning both sides of a stereo patch to the center? Maybe it's doing some kind of psuedo stereo by panning the same sound hard L & R with a slight delay? Try changing the Pan control on the mixer strip and see what affect that has on the sound.

This may be as simple as just using a different sound on the Alesis.

It affects every preset on the Alesis, although it is perhaps most noticeable on the main preset that I've been testing with Preset 00: "TrueStereo" (a stereo piano preset with extreme panning).

Combing the Alesis PDF manual for the world "pan" I think I found the root of the problem. Like most ROMplers, a patch is made up of various "tones" (individual multisamples that make up the patch) and most or all of the Alesis patches make use of panning these tones within the preset. In the Alesis synth architecture there is evidently an option of "PROG" vs. "Pan <3 to 3>". This section of the manual explains it:



Apparently, the cc10 message from DP is overriding the programming in the patch ("PROG") and forcing all of the sounds that make up the patch into the same stereo position, and that can radically alter the sound, esp. on a patch like "TrueStereo".

Don't you love how trying to fix one issue (your dead controller) can give you days of frustration?

OMG, (or OYG -- What's OYG? OMG for atheists )!!!
Between the slow death of the XP-80, to buying a Yamaha MOXF as a replacement, learning the interface of MOXF, and even writing a .midnam patch list for it, deciding I didn't like the feel of the MOXF keyboard, selling the MOXF on Ebay, buying the Alesis, learning the interface of the Alesis, and now several days troubleshooting this problem, it's been more like MONTHS! Sheesh-o-Jeez-o-man!

But after much struggle and progress, and the essential kind assistance of you out there in the Unicorn Hive Mind, all is being set right in the Babz universe again!

Thanks so much for being there, my friends!

Babz

[gzap]

Sounds like an encoder somewhere has gone sticky/buggy and is sending constant info.
Have you tried jiggling all pan knobs?

(sorry for the really, really basic advice, but sometimes....)