Suggestions for next DP update

[benmrx]

I mean... IMO, DP is on par with PT in terms of audio flexibility..

I know a few people who work professionally in both apps who feel DP is not just on par but better is some aspects.

I don't doubt it. I was digging into some of the more advanced audio editing features in DP and found myself saying, "man,.. I sure wish I could do that in Pro Tools". As far as working with audio/music, I truely think one of the main things that keeps people going back to Pro Tools (aside from people saying "do you have pro tools" when booking sessions) is the infamous "beat detective".... as much as that one feature has probably single handedly ruined pop music for the most part, ... you have to hand it to 'em... it works like a charm, and is easy as pie to work with.

On a side note,... I've been messing with the "split notes" feature more.. and I honestly can't quite figure out what DP considers a "chord". If I have a triad, and the TOP most note is happening first, and I tell the "split notes" command to cut the top note to a new track it works.... but if I have the exact same chord and tell it to cut the bottom note.... it doesn't work.... and the exact opposite is true. If the chord has the bottom note happening first and I try and cut the bottom note a new track it works... but cutting the top note doesn't..... my head hurts.......

[zed]

Really? You have to double click? I thought when you hover the cursor over the ruler the cursor will change and you locate there with a single click.

It doesn't do that all the time. In fact it usually doesn't. My finding is that double-clicking is the only reliable way of doing this, so it is second nature to me.

Just tried it several times. It always works with a double-click, and only rarely with a single click. Not sure why.

[benmrx]

I don't think I often have those enabled. I'll have to sit in front of DP tomorrow to see what you're talking about. I'm not sure I would care for the behavior to change. When I want to locate somewhere I'll use what we call the "dot trick" around here. On the numerical keypad type the "." then measure number and enter.

It's funny, because that was literally theee VERY first thing I searched for in the manual. I'm so used to just clicking in the sequence editor (or in PT land.. the "edit window") and hitting spacebar.

So you want MY app to feel like YOUR app now? that way you can feel comfortable and I'll become disoriented.

Nahhh.... I want "your" app to have a preference option to work like the PT playhead.... which is HARDLY "my" app.... that way we can both be comfortable!

[benmrx]

I would really like to see the flexible audio option in DP, though. When editing a track which is not in the pocket, slicing up the audio often leads to popping and clicking issues. If DP could squeeze portions of the audio right before a transient, and allow you to move a waveform without actually splitting the audio, then audio editing could be done without having to introduce the possibility of poorly joined waveforms.

Are you talking about the "elastic audio" thing in PT?? It IS a neat feature, but I'll tell you from first hand experience,... it doesn't really work for serious edits... ESPECIALLY on drums... OK, it sort of works as long as you don't have any cymbals... it IS however, AWSOME for trying out ideas real quick, and for more creative sound design stuff. But for serious audio edits,.... even in PT, it's still all about cutting up regions and crossfading.

[James Steele]

I thinl there's some beat detection function built in to DP. I never use it though.

You do a lot of splitting out chords it seems. And the purpose is to put them on their own track to send to another VI or something. HOW many chords? I'm just a little surprised as I've never seen the issue raised and seeming as high a priority to someone. You have such lengthy pieces that having to occasionally Shift + click, click, click is an absolute killer?

I really have to mess with splitting notes in this fashion and see about this quantizing situation. Seems you should be able to set a range in ticks that if the attacks fall within the notes are considered simultaneous. If there isn't I'll suggest it to MOTU.

[benmrx]

I thinl there's some beat detection function built in to DP. I never use it though.

You do a lot of splitting out chords it seems. And the purpose is to put them on their own track to send to another VI or something. HOW many chords? I'm just a little surprised as I've never seen the issue raised and seeming as high a priority to someone. You have such lengthy pieces that having to occasionally Shift + click, click, click is an absolute killer?

I really have to mess with splitting notes in this fashion and see about this quantizing situation. Seems you should be able to set a range in ticks that if the attacks fall within the notes are considered simultaneous. If there isn't I'll suggest it to MOTU.

What can I say... I'm a bad keyboard player... ... however I do know some theory. So what I'll do is play some basic triad chords with a piano sound..., then I start playing with those chords to make them more interesting.... either by transposing certain notes to create inversions, adding augmented or diminished notes, or by sending certain notes to other instruments, etc. It's probably not the most important feature for someone that really knows what they're doing.... but for hacks like me... it's something that gets used all the time.

No... it's not a "killer"... but it's a definate drag. Most of the things I post here regarding features I miss aren't killers... the relative grid thing is still the big thorn that keeps giving me a furrowed brow,.... but even that's not a "killer", when I stop and think about how many other things I can do all in DP with ease.

Oh yeah... DPs beat detection system.... I'll admit I've only dabbed with it, and haven't really dug in, but from what I can gather,.... it really doesn't do what PT Beat Dective does. In PT, not only can you assign triggers to transients, but you can define which beats those triggers should be, and you can use the ULTRA powerful "collection mode" which is what truely makes it THE tool for working with mult-track drums. It's so basic, but so powerful... again, which is probably the reason EVERYTHING is on the grid now when it comes to pop music.

[zed]

I would really like to see the flexible audio option in DP, though. When editing a track which is not in the pocket, slicing up the audio often leads to popping and clicking issues. If DP could squeeze portions of the audio right before a transient, and allow you to move a waveform without actually splitting the audio, then audio editing could be done without having to introduce the possibility of poorly joined waveforms.

Are you talking about the "elastic audio" thing in PT?? It IS a neat feature, but I'll tell you from first hand experience,... it doesn't really work for serious edits... ESPECIALLY on drums... OK, it sort of works as long as you don't have any cymbals... it IS however, AWSOME for trying out ideas real quick, and for more creative sound design stuff. But for serious audio edits,.... even in PT, it's still all about cutting up regions and crossfading.

Well that's interesting. I'm glad you mentioned that, since I said goodbye to ProTools before they added that feature. I'm sort of happy to hear that it doesn't work quite as well as is advertised.

Nevertheless, it seems like it *SHOULD* be possible to edit audio in this way with good results as long as the portions of the waveforms which are squeezed are the softest sections right before a transient. In this day and age, it MUST be possible to program something that will totally prevent poorly "spliced" audio, without having to use crossfading. It might take a little more ingenuity on the part of the programmers, but by golly it must be possible.

[benmrx]

I would really like to see the flexible audio option in DP, though. When editing a track which is not in the pocket, slicing up the audio often leads to popping and clicking issues. If DP could squeeze portions of the audio right before a transient, and allow you to move a waveform without actually splitting the audio, then audio editing could be done without having to introduce the possibility of poorly joined waveforms.

Are you talking about the "elastic audio" thing in PT?? It IS a neat feature, but I'll tell you from first hand experience,... it doesn't really work for serious edits... ESPECIALLY on drums... OK, it sort of works as long as you don't have any cymbals... it IS however, AWSOME for trying out ideas real quick, and for more creative sound design stuff. But for serious audio edits,.... even in PT, it's still all about cutting up regions and crossfading.

Well that's interesting. I'm glad you mentioned that, since I said goodbye to ProTools before they added that feature. I'm sort of happy to hear that it doesn't work quite as well as is advertised.

Nevertheless, it seems like it *SHOULD* be possible to edit audio in this way with good results as long as the portions of the waveforms which are squeezed are the softest sections right before a transient. In this day and age, it MUST be possible to program something that will totally prevent poorly "spliced" audio, without having to use crossfading. It might take a little more ingenuity on the part of the programmers, but by golly it must be possible.

Well... the problem is that it's audio... and audio runs on a case by case basis. It all totally depends if you're dealing with a snare, or flammed acoustic guitar chord.... it also 100% depends on what's going on in the track before and after the edit. Two VERY different things. The only way (as of right now) is if there were a crossfade feature that automatically created crossfades anytime a two regions came together... but ya know... even that wouldn't work, because again.... depending on the part, sometimes you need a different kind of crossfade. This is why Logics "auto crossfade" feature when working with their "quickswipe" tool is basically useless. There are also the more powerful time compression/expansion algos... PT has "x-form" which IMO is bad ASS. It's definately theee best I've ever worked with.... the only problem is that it's SSSLLLLOOOOWWW... I mean SLLLLLLOOOOOOOOWWW. So it's not really that good for powering you're way through a track.

[bayswater]

Really? You have to double click? I thought when you hover the cursor over the ruler the cursor will change and you locate there with a single click.

You're right, a single click does it. But I think what Zed is talking about is a single click anywhere in an edit window where there isn't some sort of event. It was present in Cubase, but had its drawbacks. I find using the keyboard short cuts for cursor movement covers most cases quicker.

[chaim]

1) First and foremost... a toggle to switch the grid between relative and absolute modes
2) Ability to open the same plugin across multiple tracks at once
3) Ability to create the same send assignment across multiple tracks at once
4) A "split notes" command that works on selections that are NOT quantized
5) Individual colors for regions
6) If #5 above were added, then also give us the ability to select all regions of the same color
7) The ability to have preroll without a predefined punch out point
Something similar to the "Transform Automation" tool from Presonus' Studio One DAW (Youtube it, it's pretty awsome!)
9) The ability to have DP bounce all selected tracks and/or busses to individual files to a folder (again, a very nice Studio One feature)
10) Maybe I've missed this one, and it already exists, but the ability to invert a selection
11) Ability to select tracks in the mixer window
12) Ability to have "right click" assignable to it's own tool (there could be a switch in the preferences if you'de rather have the contextual menus)
13) Again, maybe I've missed it, but a simple "duplicate" command that will duplicate whatever is selected... slightly like the "repeat" option, but more streamlined.
14) The ability to have the "shift selection" command reference the sync point instead of the left edge of the region/soundbite
15) Ability to send a region to the playhead... again, either based in the regions sync point or it's left edge.
16) Ability to change a notes velocity by simply dragging up/down on the note itself by holding down a modifier key in either the sequence, or MIDI editor
17) Take a hint from the "MIDI smart tool" in PT. This is probably the one MIDI thing PT seriously got right.
18) A MUCH more streamlined method of beat detection. Just rip Beat Detective from PT....
19) Elastic Audio as PT calls it.. or Flex Time as Logic calls it... or Warp Markers as Ableton Live calls it.
20) Ability to add custom continuous controllers to the "insert event list" in the MIDI editor
21) A simple '+' button in the preference for "continuous data" to add more than 7 controllers.
22) I belive they might have had this in older versions, but a "quick filter" button in the sequence editor.
23) A simple "Tab to transient" feature in the sequence editor (seems easy enough as they already have the algorithm for detecting transients)

I agree and vote for: 3 9 15 16 22

The following are there already if I understand you correctly:

1 - are you talking about the GRID? right top? You can toggle that with command.

4 - works by me. Again sounds like you need to understand how to turn off the grid lock.

13 - in dp you hold down option and you can copy (duplicate) that soundbite or MIDI note/s
you can select a track and duplicate that too from a menu, or assign your own command.

It feels good to hear that you like dp more than all other apps.

[FMiguelez]

3) Do you know that anything you can see in the Finder can be stored in a Clippings window? That means project notes, screenshots of your settings, motion screen captures of methods you've discovered, or (I presume) a folder containing all the above. Just drag it from the Finder. You can launch these items from the Clippings Window and they'll open in their native apps.

+10000000000
Clippings are great for all that.

The only problem is that, as they are now, Clippings are partially crippled.
I never noticed this when I was in DP 4 because there were no tracks folders. But now that I'm spoiled by them I want the Clippings to RESPECT the track folder assignments. PLEASE!

Now I have been forced to change my workflow and almost stop using Clippings in favor of Chunks (by loading chunks and importing Bundles). I don't like this new method, but it's the only one that lets me build my custom templates by elements and "blocks" of things.

MOTU, PLEASE fix this issue with Clippings. Just make them retain the folder structure of the tracks they are made of.
I suppose this would be very easy to fix, and would bring Clippings back to the AWESOME realm.

As for using Markers for comments, I've done that often. Nothing wrong with that! While they actually have a Comments field, I have made short notes in the name itself, so that I will see and read it in the sequence. The comments fields do not show up in the sequence.

While that is totally possible to use markers that way, that's obviously not how they were intended to be used. It's not practical.

A special kind of marker called "comments" or whatever would be beautiful. We could show/hide them, color code them, print them, choose what windows can see them, etc.

Plus takes fully implemented for ALL of the CT's elements (not just markers).

[chaim]

BTW there seems to be a bug in the start up clipping windows. Not everything/every time the document/folder/image etc... is drag-able into the clipping window.

I tried to diferent TextEdit documents, one went the other didn't.

[FMiguelez]

...but then there are some basic things I can't do in DP... like split chords that aren't quantized..., that's a biggie for the way I work.

How else would you suggest DP determines which notes belong to the chord and which don't?
Unless they are simple triad blocks it's easy, but if the notes have different durations in the chord, how would DP know about this?

The rest of your suggestions are good, and I share a few of them.

I don't care about the absolute grid (never had a need for it), and there are several work around for that.

[zed]

Really? You have to double click? I thought when you hover the cursor over the ruler the cursor will change and you locate there with a single click.

You're right, a single click does it. But I think what Zed is talking about is a single click anywhere in an edit window where there isn't some sort of event. It was present in Cubase, but had its drawbacks. I find using the keyboard short cuts for cursor movement covers most cases quicker.

I was talking about the ruler... but I have figured out what causes the difference...

If you move the mouse cursor anywhere in between the actual NUMBERS on the ruler (i.e. at the same vertical level as the numbers) then all you have to do is single-click. If, however, you click on the actual edge of the ruler where the little vertical measurement indications are located, you can double-click to achieve the same effect (and that is how I have been doing it, unaware that I could save myself a click if I reached a few pixels higher).

And this is exactly the kind of precision I am asking MOTU to eliminate. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to do this same function without having to reach up for the ruler.

I don't know about Cubase, but StudioVision Pro handled this very well and there was no reaching required.

[benmrx]

The following are there already if I understand you correctly:

1 - are you talking about the GRID? right top? You can toggle that with command.

Yeah.. but the grid is relative to the current position of the notes/soundbites. I want a toggle to switch that grid to absolute mode.

4 - works by me. Again sounds like you need to understand how to turn off the grid lock.

I'll admit, I wasn't paying attention to the grid mode when trying to use the split notes function.

13 - in dp you hold down option and you can copy (duplicate) that soundbite or MIDI note/s
you can select a track and duplicate that too from a menu, or assign your own command.

Sure, but I want a simple duplicate command instead of having to drag the mouse around. For those programs that have it, it's a very understated little feature that gets used all the time.

It feels good to hear that you like dp more than all other apps.

That's because DP is awsome!

How else would you suggest DP determines which notes belong to the chord and which don't?
Unless they are simple triad blocks it's easy, but if the notes have different durations in the chord, how would DP know about this?

The rest of your suggestions are good, and I share a few of them.

I don't care about the absolute grid (never had a need for it), and there are several work around for that.

Well.. I don't know how the alogrithm works, but in Pro Tools it seems to work just fine whether top notes come first or not. There can be issues if you're sustaining notes inbetween chords I'll admit, but it works 95% of the time. In Logic, they don't have a split notes feature, but there is a simple option to select all top or bottom notes..... it seems to behave the same as Pro Tools. In DP, the function just doesn't work... ever, in a practical sense where you can predict the outcome unless the chords are quantized.