hi-hat bleeding into snare mic too much

[aizo]

i'm wondering if just maybe the gate on dp and waves is not good enough or should i try a hardware gate like the presonus acp88? i use a 57 on the sd and i just can't get a good sound without hearing my cursed hi hat. it's hard to move becuase of my set up.

[BradLyons]

The most common error when recording drums is having mics too hot. When recording "normal" instruments, you want the best gain possible. But when recording drums, this isn't exactly the rule to follow. Compression is a HUGE part of drums, especially the snare. When miking the snare, you will hear hi-hat in it but you shouldn't hear a lot. The problem when you have too much gain on the mic and you compress the snare nice and tight, you'll hear the hat jumping out. Instead, turn the pre gain DOWN and use the makeup gain in your compressors. This makes gating effective, you still get a great sound, and the problem goes away.

[oldguitars]

i really find that it is all about the drummer's choice of hihats and his/her technique. They are usually way too loud and thick and if he/she is a basher then.... That is why i use thin 16" crashes as they are WAY quieter and mellow (or any super thin cymbals). despite what people think, they get in the snare mic much less. mic placement is very important, but since every setup is different, there is no set rule. experimentation is the best. If it is a track that is already recorded and the HH's are triggering the gate too much, try keying the gate with a dupe of the snare track that the top is rolled out of (or use a frequency controllable gate like the waves ren channel or MW gate) if that doesn't work, although it should, you could manually erase the crud in between snare hits. if that gets rid of too much snare ring, you can then do a snare replace on top of that to get the ring back. if the drum part is busy with ghost notes, well, time to retrack....

[zara_drummer]

Personally and professionally I prefer K's to record and play live with.

They always translate well to tape for me. Obviously people have their preference...

As far as snare bleed...I tend to not point the snare mic down so much. I have learned to point the mic to where the drummer (me) hits the drum.

I treat toms a lil different cuz I like to capture the tone of the drum as well as the attack. Make sure to the use a somewhat cardioid mic...like a 57 or the like.

I also concentrate on capturing the bottom of the snare...I like to use a beta 57 or 58 since they capture more of the crispyness of the drum.

Auralex used to have a kit they sold that helps isolate the mics...I cant find it on their site now, but i'm sure they are available on ebay...saw theym at guitar center for $60. the mic fits thru the foam to help isolate it...With drums you always gonna have some bleed...I dont see anything wrong with it unless is really offending...but then its just a matter of mic placement.

[BradLyons]

I think this is what you're referring to:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AuralXpander/

[Resonant Alien]

If you are tracking with a compressor on the snare mic, you may have the comp set too high, and that may be bringing up the level of the hats in between snare hits more than normal. Try backing off the comp (assuming you are tracking with comp)

[aizo]

antimutagen.....


thanks guys for all the help. i'll post a pic of my set up in a little while. i'm at a friends house. i have the mic facing towards the drummer about at the 10 o'clock postion. it directly faces the opposite way of the hi hats. i do run my preamp really hot. and i use a hardware (dbx...is this good?)compressor that i set to a 3:1. i was thinking about getting a presonus acp 88. for gating and compression. my uncle uses one and it makes his terrible kit sound fantastic. also, i believe a factor is the room it's in. due to lack of space as to my studio is in the middle of construction. the drums can only be in a little room with sheet rocks walls....and it's pretty close to the wall too.

i have a lot of work to do.

again thanks everyone!

edit: i use 13" Z custom bottom with a A custom top

and while i'm the subject of hi hats. i use 3 oktava 012's. hi hat and over head's. is this a good mic? does anyone see certain problems with them. approval...beefs? also, what's a good upgrade for these?

[BradLyons]

The ACP88 is a very good box offering a lot of channels for the money. I've used them primarily live, but they are very good for the studio as well. If you run your pres hot, then there's your answer. You're recording so many different tones that have to be individually controlled. Back off your level, use makeup gain in your hardware or software compressor, your sound will be fine, and you'll have more control later.

[zara_drummer]

Try your snare mic more between the 7-9 oclock position that might help...

As far as the Oktava 012's...I think they are great. I actually dig them as room mics. I use Oktava MK 319 large diaphrams as over heads...I turn the pad on and use the roll off...

The 012's are extremely versatile...i find myself using them for lots of stuff!

Nothing wrong with using a hardware compressor. I use one on my snare when I record cuz its so hot comin in( PORK PIE LOUD!). I tend to have to turn the input way down...So there is nothing wrong with compression.

What Brad said should work for you...let the compressor work for you. I use it so I dont blow the meter everytime and I think it would work for you in that way as well.

13" K/Z's rule!

[Jim]

i'm wondering if just maybe the gate on dp and waves is not good enough or should i try a hardware gate like the presonus acp88? i use a 57 on the sd and i just can't get a good sound without hearing my cursed hi hat. it's hard to move becuase of my set up.

I was amazed at how moving my 57 two inches closer to the snare center (and away from the hat at the same time) attenuated most of the spill from the hat.

I've read many times that moving mics just a few inches can make a radical difference, and now I believe. Try that before you throw any money at it. Might work for you, too!

[oldguitars]

Yeah, if you need to throw money at it, then something must be way off...