Mix depth 1.01?

buzzsmith · Post by **buzzsmith** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:20 am

Currently working on a couple of standards albums (think Diana Krall, Steve Tyrell) and the mixes are coming along very nicely.

However, I'd like to get a little more sonic "depth", if possible.

Everything was close miked when recorded, but I'd like (for instance) to have the rhythm guitarist sound like he's about 6 feet back and to the left of the singer (pan, of course, for the positioning), and maybe the drummer 10 or 12 feet back, and basically centered.

What are some of your favorite depth tricks?

Thanks!

=bz=

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:31 am

Depth is perceived how???? mainly time... Your ears plce spacial elements by what cues..... reverb AND time

Put a delay on the gtr (subtle barely heard, but felt) and place in the appropriate space. The further back the bigger/deeper the space.

In other words a guy you want 50 feet away from you shouldnt end up in a room reverb. etc.....Then how you tweak the verb (predelays, early reflections, etc...) All these are contributing factors to spacial element placement.....

Think of it in terms of live acoustics and look around you to see what things contribute to you knowing how deep/far away a point of source is....

buzzsmith · Post by **buzzsmith** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:25 am

Thanks, Giles...

just got back from my morning run and was kinda thinking along the lines that you outlined...I figured it would involve some form of delay.

I do try to picture the band, orchestra, choir whatever when I mix and "pretend" I'm in the audience watching the performance.

BTW,...see you're from Philly. Weekly I upload some really badly played accordion songs to WOGL for their Wednesday morning crew roast of their news guy Bill Z. The worse I play (or Bill plays) the better! Everything is done with a polka feel...Rolling Stones, BeeGees, Elvis, etc.

They use Bill's very amateurish accordion performance to lead into the actual original version of the song. It's become quite a successful bit for them.

Thanks again!

=bz=

sdemott · Post by **sdemott** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:16 am

Don't forget about HF content too.

The farther something is away from us the less HF the sound source contains (in a manner relative to it's sonic fingerprint). So, while adjusting reverbs & predelays also roll off some of those highs. Especially starting in that 3k-5k area where our ears are most sensitive (the dominant freq. of a child's crying - its all baseed on survival of the species).

Google "Fletcher-Munson Curve" to read about how our ear reacts to frequencies and you'll better understand. In fact, no audio engineer should be without this information. It is integral to making good choices when mixing (and recording for that matter).

and for what it's worth: at room temperature and 50% relative humidity sound is delayed in the air approx. 1ms per foot (1.13 feet actually, but 1 is close enough).

HTH

Spikey Horse · Post by **Spikey Horse** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:56 am

As for drums: the further back they are the less stereo separation there is between, say, hihats and ride, toms and so on.

In my book there's nowt wrong with having drums almost mono (relative to itself) and have the whole lot panned off centre ..... often the other side to an off centre bass. Not much... actually quite a lot can be really groovy but it always sounds really odd when a pub/bar/venue has the left speaker in one room and the right in another...LOL! .....but I digress....

- oh look I've found my old profile on this (not normally used) machine

I must retrieve that password!

buzzsmith · Post by **buzzsmith** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:55 am

Spikey and Steve:

Thanks for your input.

Good points from both of you.

Thanks!

=bz=