switch from PC/Logic to MacBook/DP and terrified. pleaseHelp

jefvTaon · Post by **jefvTaon** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:15 am

hi, i'm a struggling 46 year-old musican doing theatre music in germany. i had a dalliance trying to learn Logic w/ a PC but figured it just isn't for me. ( I've been recording on a VS 880 since 1998 which is now making me crazy! ) DP is not popular here in the land of Logic and they just look at me in horror when I speak of going this way.
The thing that scares me aside from not knowing anyone here personally that uses it, or that the big music shops here in berlin haven't the faintest experience w/ DP ( ...not to mention being biased against it), is that this will be the only time I will be able to re-tool my recording set-up in this decade...probably longer!

At this point the realistic set-up is: DP5.1, Mac Book, Fireface 800, MCU, Dynaudio BM5A monitors.

1. Is there anybody out there who can give me potential negatives on this set-up? Mainly compatibility-wise? It seems like most of what I've sifted thru on Mac Book/DP5 search here is people having problems w/ what they've imported from either older Macs or up-dating from earlier DP versions. If I'm starting fresh w/ both new and as current as possible should it be ok? And how about the MCU? Should I try and get the older V1.2, as people say the newer version is weird? In fact the guy at the big store here was like, "you know the MCU doesn't even work properly w/ DP running." and proceeded to try and sell me on Logic. Reading some peoples words here tonight on your forum, it doesn't make me confident he's wrong. Are there people here using the MCU for common work where it's cool? It will be hard enough to learn a new way of recording w/out having bugs on top of it. Also will daisy-chaining the Mac Book-Fireface800-MCU create latency or stability issues? another reason the music store dude reccomended the Pro.

2. The other thing is: LATENCY. With the VS-880, it sucked ( or sucks,I haven't switched yet) recording music, but at least it's real-time. The idea of any latency is really bogue... I was at a colleague's studio a few years ago and was like "screw computer recording! ". So please, tell me my above gear choices should be latancy-free! I know, I know...(but we haven't even gotten to the plug-ins yet..).
I'm a composer/musician who does it all himself generally so I will be recording max. 3 audio tracks live. I'm concerned about play back of audio and the accompanying plug-ins. Thankfully I just learned here Waves aren't supported yet and won't be for DP for the immediate future. Which is a double drag as I just learned yesterday UA-1 Packs don't even work w/ a Mac Book! and to top it all off, my work is basically influenced by late 60's to mid-70's pop/rock/folk so vintage plugs are a big reason I want to migrate to computers in the first place.

Since my living situation dictates portability; and only since unprecedented price dropping/ power increases of the last few years, is it that I'm able to even consider this whole thing at all. Is it good as a beginner to have a UB policy w/ all plug-ins? I assume so... the komplete 3 from NI (another berlin local) is already there. As this is the only plug-in it seems I could go out tomorrow and purchase from my software list aside, from DP. are there good vintage emulating plugs on the scope of Waves/UA anyone can reccomend for MB/MBPro which will be UB by say, november?

Also nagging in the back of my mind: is getting the Mac Book gonna haunt me later? The guy at the Mac store said unless I'm doing 3-D or Final Cut editing it's fine for audio. But the music store said the better video chip in the MacBook Pro will help w/ all the plug-in graphics I will be eventually running. True or false? The only thing that can make me consider MBP is saying : latency dude! And to be completely honest here, I AM interested in soft synths (NI Bundle), Altiverb( is it UB yet?), Waves Renaissance stuff and Multiplexer. My saving grace is I'm used to only 8 tracks (and recording effects w/out blinking an eye), so talk of limitation of "not too many" plug-in effects and parish the thought, rendering (?), seem totally surreal to me.

Sorry, to make my first post so long but this is a very important time for me and need to make the right decision first time around. and trust me, germany has a lot to learn about customer service, i'm not counting on that at all. Any input would be GREATLY appreciated... what's more dangerous is, I got the $ now and am itchin' to go!

thanks, jef

arumdevil · Post by **arumdevil** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:42 am

I can't really comment on most of your post, but I think regarding latency you shouldn't have trouble. Personally If you get DP I would use MOTU hardware with it, but I'm sure other hardware also works fine. Whichever hardware you use, you can choose the latency from within DP - lower latency will tax the CPU more but you will only need this at the recording stage - once it's all recorded you can raise the buffer (eg latency) and get CPU power back for mixing.

latency of the plugins/effects in the software is not an issue as they are automatically sync'd.

I have the MacBook Pro, and personally I think the MacBook would be on a par for Audio apps - and I can't really see how you would need a bigger graphics memory for the plugins - it's 3D work where you would need it, or Video editing.

Hope that helps a bit, I'm sure others will be along to answer more in depth and with their experiences soon,

a.

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:01 am

1 - Your setup is fine. I dont see potential problems coming in fresh. the cu v 1.2 is the best fit with MOST systems. The issues with v 2.x mackie software are universal issues. I actually have the Logic Control running in Universal (MCU) mode. No problems whatsoever with DP.....

When did Komplete go UB??? Must be in europe. I havnt received any notification......Nothing on the website either....

2 - Latency. Tracking outboard signals (if the fireface has DSP. Timeline is the resident Fireface expert) Then latency wont be an issue. Tracking with VI's you might notice live play latency. The macbook will allowd dp to go pretty low on the buffers without much hassle vs a DUal G5 setup.

I Love DP, but so far as efficieny with VI's it still isnt there yet. Perhaps when the VI's go UB we will see the truth of the future. I hope so. With mixing DP under intel is showing VERY favorable results. even with the lowly macbook 1.83

UB is the biggest holdup right now. soon as NI goes UB I am ready to rock. Till then My G5 is still in service.... Ebay anyone?? LOL

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:05 am

jefvTaon wrote:hi, i'm a struggling 46 year-old musican doing theatre music in germany. i had a dalliance trying to learn Logic w/ a PC but figured it just isn't for me. ( I've been recording on a VS 880 since 1998 which is now making me crazy! ) DP is not popular here in the land of Logic and they just look at me in horror when I speak of going this way.
The thing that scares me aside from not knowing anyone here personally that uses it, or that the big music shops here in berlin haven't the faintest experience w/ DP ( ...not to mention being biased against it), is that this will be the only time I will be able to re-tool my recording set-up in this decade...probably longer!...

I think in the long term things will be fine. I think in the more immediate sense you may be frustrated with compatiblity issues, and a few bugs that MOTU is working on. I think they will be fixed in the next release, so you may not have to wait very long for success.

Also, it's just me, personally, but I think you might get a faster computer if you just waited a generation on the MacBookPro. I'm not sure you will feel comfortable with the limitations in speed after a while. To put that in context, however, it's sort of a given that anyone, even on the fastest computer in the world, will soon be frustrated with the speed limitations of his computer.

So, you could keep waiting forever. Let me take back that advice. Just go ahead and get it so you can enjoy using it over the next six months to a year. After that much time with ANY computer, a new one always supercedes it. Even I once owned the fastest Mac made--four years ago! And now it struggles to keep up. That's just the plight of any computer user.

Enjoy your switch. There are plenty of people here who will help with your questions.

Shooshie

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:25 am

i use ff800 w/dp5.1 ,it works better than my 896 did w/ dp

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:16 am

The only issue might be a few things about the MCU but the rest is great. I have two FF800's and plan to buy Lynx Arora 16 and L SLOT ADAT card soon. Will feed the RME with the ADAT OP's and IN'ies.

You should love it. There will always be a few issues but I doubt and show stoppers. MOTU will certainly smooth a few of them out in time.

jefvTaon · Post by **jefvTaon** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:51 am

wow, this is great... i appreciate your replies so much.

"I have the MacBook Pro, and personally I think the MacBook would be on a par for Audio apps - and I can't really see how you would need a bigger graphics memory for the plugins - it's 3D work where you would need it, or Video editing."

ya, that didnt sound right concerning plug-ins needing the same thing as Final Cut !

"Tracking outboard signals (if the fireface has DSP."

what is DSP?

"if you just waited a generation on the MacBookPro. I'm not sure you will feel comfortable with the limitations in speed after a while. "

i thought that if things got really good with the theatre work - i've only been only doing it 18 months- then i'd wait out the tabletop dualcore and get whats after macpro... meanwhile i can learn on the macbook. and remember, this is coming from working on a vs-880...

i forgot to ask about an external HD... obviously it should be firewire. can this mess up things... (i'm sure it can). any reccomendations? to be honest i havent searched the forum yet.

and about NI being UB. i'm sorry, i obviously am wrong. perhaps confused them with supporting intel macs. TBH all this info-seeking the last 48 hours is hard to process in my own very slow 'puter twixt the ears.

i will sleep better tonite.
cheers, jef

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:22 am

I would not run any FW HD's if using more than one FW800's. Instead, Upgrade your internal drive to the latest Seagate. Think they have fast 160gb internals that just came out for laptops.

The internals are fast enough to get quite a few tracks or video and tracks. Others may comment of this but another alternative would be to get a card for the accessories slot.

standingwave · Post by **standingwave** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:48 am

Timeline wrote:I would not run any FW HD's if using more than one FW800's. Instead, Upgrade your internal drive to the latest Seagate. Think they have fast 160gb internals that just came out for laptops.

The internals are fast enough to get quite a few tracks or video and tracks. Others may comment of this but another alternative would be to get a card for the accessories slot.

I'm also interested how best to configue a macbook for DP work as I'm about to get one too.

Can I ask what you mean about the FW800 drives, Timeline? I'm doubly confused as macbooks (not pro) only have FW 400 and 2x USB2.

So would you say retro fitting a 7200rpm drive for system AND audio really a better idea than keeping separate on external drives (FW or USB) and the standard 5400rpm internal drive? And are there issues with over heating with big 7200rpm internal drives (I had heard it was an potential issue).

I've never owned a laptop before so I'm also eager to hear anyone's experience/advice for using macbooks (or similar) and DP

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:07 am

I meant the FF800 RME interfaces.

Sorry, I thought they had 800 ports. I was thinking of the PowerBook.

In that case you must buy an accessories Firewire card and run external drives from that, that is if they have ports like the Powerbook.

If not use the internal. I have had great success running projects from the internal same as OS drive. It's not as dangerous as it used to be.

standingwave · Post by **standingwave** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:00 pm

Timeline wrote: I have had great success running projects from the internal same as OS drive. It's not as dangerous as it used to be.

That's good news - I just assumed it was to always be avoided. I guess I should just get the thing and start experimenting running DP project on it ....

genel · Post by **genel** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:07 pm

If you are planning to use a MacBook Pro with a Firewire audio interface and you also need high speed hard drive access for larger projects, you may want to read this posting I put up on Gearslutz:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=80869

Gene

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:09 pm

i have been told (George-TECH SUPPORT @ Synthax-RME distributer-USA)if you are going to use 1 ff,you will get same performance on regular firewire(400) .........firewire 800 is beneficial,if you are using multiple ff's

jefvTaon · Post by **jefvTaon** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:41 pm

" Upgrade your internal drive to the latest Seagate. Think they have fast 160gb internals that just came out for laptops.

The internals are fast enough to get quite a few tracks or video and tracks. "

wow, thats cool...i wont be having more than one FF800.
this humungous 160 gig internal HD sounds perfect.

and its true, only FW400 and usb for the macbook. the salesman at the musicstore said that was a good reason to choose the MBP. saying " so if you have FW going to the MCU...how will you get to the external FW hd?"
and he also said daisy-chaining fire wire could make it unstable...i dont know but i hope the MCU has 2 firewire ports.

rainmaker · Post by **rainmaker** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:51 pm

Just a note... The Mackie MCU doesn't have any firewire ports. It connects with standard MIDI cables only. So to connect a MCU to your Macbook, you'll need some sort of usb MIDI interface or MIDI inputs on your audio interface. My friend has a MCU with DP and likes it a lot. It works pretty well except for a few small bugs, but nothing that slows him down much. You are talking about the Mackie Control Universal aren't you? If not, ignore that last comment.

Rainmaker

MOTUnation.com

switch from PC/Logic to MacBook/DP and terrified. pleaseHelp

switch from PC/Logic to MacBook/DP and terrified. pleaseHelp

Re: switch from PC/Logic to MacBook/DP and terrified. please