828mkII pre vs. Grace Designs, sound quality difference?

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:01 pm

BradLyons wrote:I will warn, it is dangerous to say "I don't recommend a product based on what I read" because unless you've had actual hands-on experience yourself, you don't really know

Often times what we read is written by people who have hands on experience, like you do. And am "reading" what you wrote right now. So anything one reads can't always be dismissed out of hand.

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:53 am

BradLyons wrote:If you can get to $1500, IMHO I would recommend a pair of Beyer M160's and a Presonus MP20. Not the greatest pre in the world, but man is it ever good for the money. I promise you for the money, this combination is VERY nice!

For your reference:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M160/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MP20/

And then you can buy four Burr-Brown Op-amps for the MP20 ($75) and mod it yourself. Changing the op-amps in it are as easy as changing tubes in a guitar amp and easier than changing strings on a strat.

You can also upgrade the transformers to Jenson ($50 +$30 for installation) if you want to get the most out of the preamp, but I've heard that the op-amp change is a bigger difference. I can tell you that it made a HUGE difference in my MP20.

Then consider modding that 828mkii via Black Lion. You'll get upgraded op-amps for all i/o AND I've heard from folks here and at TapeOp that the mic pres on the 828mkii become Grace 101 clones. Plus, you'll have a nice master clock that's 12 tomes better than a stock 828mkii.

I'm sending mine in to BL in approx 2 weeks.

Jeff

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:15 am

As far as mics are concerned, my Audio Technica 4047sv combined with the Burr-Brown-modded MP20 is pretty sweet. Also, you can get a used Sytek MPX-4A or MPX4Aii on ebay for around $600-$700. It's four channels. This is actually a better sounding preamp than the MP20 as far as clean is concerned. You get 2 channels of Sytek ultra clean and 2 channnels of Burr-Brown op-amps. Great preamp.

Ok, so $1200...

Honestly, I would pick up a Sytek, mod the 828mkii via Black Lion, and then pick up one solid mic like a used 414b/uls (clean), an AT4047sv (colored), or buy two used Oktava mk319 mics and have Michael Jolly mod them at http://www.oktavamod.com/. Wait a month and increase your budget. The modded Mk319 mics are getting amazing reviews over at TapeOp. They can go head to head with Microtech-Gefell UM70s or Neuman U87 mics. I think that stretching this cash and modding the 828mkii will give you the best results.

Jeff

Douglas I. · Post by **Douglas I.** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:54 pm

gearboy wrote: And then you can buy four Burr-Brown Op-amps for the MP20 ($75) and mod it yourself. Changing the op-amps in it are as easy as changing tubes in a guitar amp and easier than changing strings on a strat.
Jeff

Sounds intriguing. A quick google search on this, and it looks like a lot of folks have switched out the op-amps on the MP20. Thanks for the tip.

gearboy wrote: Then consider modding that 828mkii via Black Lion. You'll get upgraded op-amps for all i/o AND I've heard from folks here and at TapeOp that the mic pres on the 828mkii become Grace 101 clones. Plus, you'll have a nice master clock that's 12 tomes better than a stock 828mkii.
Jeff

Any risk that this modification would conflict with 828 drivers, stability/reliability issues? I didn't realize that one could modify the 828, and a quick search reveals that you're in good company.

Mic-wise I'm taking a hard look at ribbon-types for use with mellow strings to high volume hand drums.

Thanks,

Doug

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:58 pm

Any risk that this modification would conflict with 828 drivers, stability/reliability issues? I didn't realize that one could modify the 828, and a quick search reveals that you're in good company.

I'm certain that the mod will not affect drivers. I've done extensive research on this mod and have never heard anything except "I dodn't know that Matt installs a toggle switch/This thing always wants to me the master clock." Both things are fine by me.

Matt installs a toggle switch on the front of the 828mkii to flip between 44.1/48kHz. It's part of the clock mod. Now, you can simply have the analog mod done, then spring for a Big Ben etc down the line. The way that I see it, since I have two 828s, I'm going for the full mod on at least on of them. I only record at 44.1 (but always 24-bit) since everything that I do goes on CD. If I ever venture into film soundtrack stuff again, then I can use 48k. 96K??? I'm not there yet. If I do decide to go that direction, I'm going to upgrade to a dedicated clock. But that's a few yrs down the line, if at all. I don't see DVD audio becoming a demand right now. 5 year plan includes more mic preamps and mics. and guitars. I swear that one can never have enough of those.

anyway... sorry for the gear rant.

Mic-wise I'm taking a hard look at ribbon-types for use with mellow strings to high volume hand drums.

Check out a 4047sv, if not for your immediate needs, then for future expansion. It's mellow yet present and handles high SPLs like a champ. It's my kick drum/main vocal/acoustic guitar mic of choice. It's probably fantastic as a mono drum overhead.

Ribbons... check out the Shiny Box stuff.

Jeff