Cannot sync 2x 828 mkiis

AgincourtDB · Post by **AgincourtDB** » Fri May 12, 2006 10:13 pm

Side about Brad and his company: If I was rich I'd only buy from Sweetwater, that's for sure, they're great. So far I've only bought various cable from them, iirc, but next month I'm going to buy one of those Onyx 24.4 mixers from them when they come out (assuming they can match a lower price I've found). I tend to buy used gear a lot, and have had very little problem. I will never, however, buy Chinese SM57s on ebay again.

Anyway, I've tracked down the copy of XP Home that ran on my desktop before i went x64. It's SP1 only, IIRC. I'm going to try installing that on Sunday. Will update then.

AgincourtDB · Post by **AgincourtDB** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:57 am

This today from MOTU tech support.... At least it's definitive.

Hello,

Thank you for writing.

In order to daisy chain multiple Firewire interfaces, you need to be running Windows XP SP1, using a TI chip set card and driver version 3.5.3.2.

Regards,
Garrick Sanderson
MOTU Tech Support

lane_hagood · Post by **lane_hagood** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:16 pm

AgincourtDB wrote:Side about Brad and his company: If I was rich I'd only buy from Sweetwater, that's for sure, they're great. So far I've only bought various cable from them, iirc, but next month I'm going to buy one of those Onyx 24.4 mixers from them when they come out (assuming they can match a lower price I've found). I tend to buy used gear a lot, and have had very little problem. I will never, however, buy Chinese SM57s on ebay again.

Anyway, I've tracked down the copy of XP Home that ran on my desktop before i went x64. It's SP1 only, IIRC. I'm going to try installing that on Sunday. Will update then.

THIS MAY SOUND CHEAP, BUT, I HAVE BOUGHT LESS EXPENSIVE THINGS FROM SWEETWATER THAT HAD TO WORK WITH STUFF THAT I HAD GOTTEN USED. SINCE THEY SUPPORT MY PURCHASE THEY ALSO HELP TROUBLE SHOOT THE ISSUES I MIGHT HAVE INEGRATING THE EQUIP I BOUGHT FROM THEM WITH MY EXISTING EQUIPMENT.<P>
I DONT WORK FOR THESE GUYS BUT.. THEY DO SELL FOR THE SAME PRICES AS MUSICIANS FRIEND. MF DOESNT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SELLING AND DONT MIND TELLING YOU.<P>
HERES A STORY...I GOT A BUE SNOWBALL USB MIC FROM SW THAT I FEEL WAS DEFECTIVE TECH SUPPORT AT SW AGREED. BUT I DIDNT HAVE TO GO TO ANY TROUBLE TO RETURN IT. THEY ARRANGED FOR A NEXT DAY FEDEX PICKUP AT MY HOME. NO RETURN AUTH. OR TRIPS TO UPS OR POST OFFICE OR ANY COST TO ME IN TIME OR MONEY. I JUST LOVE THE WAY THEY DO BUISNESS. IT IS UNCOMMON THESE DAYS. AND THEY SEND ME CANDY.

AgincourtDB · Post by **AgincourtDB** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:17 pm

THIS MAY SOUND CHEAP, BUT, I HAVE BOUGHT LESS EXPENSIVE THINGS FROM SWEETWATER THAT HAD TO WORK WITH STUFF THAT I HAD GOTTEN USED. SINCE THEY SUPPORT MY PURCHASE THEY ALSO HELP TROUBLE SHOOT THE ISSUES I MIGHT HAVE INEGRATING THE EQUIP I BOUGHT FROM THEM WITH MY EXISTING EQUIPMENT.<P>
I DONT WORK FOR THESE GUYS BUT.. THEY DO SELL FOR THE SAME PRICES AS MUSICIANS FRIEND. MF DOESNT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SELLING AND DONT MIND TELLING YOU.<P>
HERES A STORY...I GOT A BUE SNOWBALL USB MIC FROM SW THAT I FEEL WAS DEFECTIVE TECH SUPPORT AT SW AGREED. BUT I DIDNT HAVE TO GO TO ANY TROUBLE TO RETURN IT. THEY ARRANGED FOR A NEXT DAY FEDEX PICKUP AT MY HOME. NO RETURN AUTH. OR TRIPS TO UPS OR POST OFFICE OR ANY COST TO ME IN TIME OR MONEY. I JUST LOVE THE WAY THEY DO BUISNESS. IT IS UNCOMMON THESE DAYS. AND THEY SEND ME CANDY.

They are great.. and I too love the candy.

AgincourtDB · Post by **AgincourtDB** » Wed May 17, 2006 9:17 pm

AgincourtDB wrote:This today from MOTU tech support.... At least it's definitive.

Hello,

Thank you for writing.

In order to daisy chain multiple Firewire interfaces, you need to be running Windows XP SP1, using a TI chip set card and driver version 3.5.3.2.

Regards,
Garrick Sanderson
MOTU Tech Support

Well, Garrick rules. He even left a message earlier, I'll probably call him back just to say thanks....

I've managed to fulfill all these conditions by dual-booting the desktop, Winpro x64 and WinXP SP1, using the TI chipset firewire card, and installing the 3.5.3.2. drivers, and I achieve sync between the two 828mkiis. A few simple test-records at single and double speed sample rates show it's performing well (not stuttering or losing sync)

One moment of panic when installing the second OS ruined the first one (probably because you're supposed to install them in order of release, but I already had Winpro x64 tweaked and all...) but windows setup managed to fix the problem and the only thing I had to reinstall (so far) was IE7beta, all my other data and apps seem fine (again, so far).

The laptop appears to be out of luck because it's SP2 and I don't have another Windows license without SP2, plus it's firewire chipset is VIA. I don't really feel like buying a firewire PCMIA card and another Windows license just to save from doing a little heavy lifting. Heck, I need the excercise.

Thanks again everyone.

lane_hagood · Post by **lane_hagood** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:07 pm

AgincourtDB wrote:
AgincourtDB wrote:This today from MOTU tech support.... At least it's definitive.

Hello,

Thank you for writing.

In order to daisy chain multiple Firewire interfaces, you need to be running Windows XP SP1, using a TI chip set card and driver version 3.5.3.2.

Regards,
Garrick Sanderson
MOTU Tech Support

Well, Garrick rules. He even left a message earlier, I'll probably call him back just to say thanks....

I've managed to fulfill all these conditions by dual-booting the desktop, Winpro x64 and WinXP SP1, using the TI chipset firewire card, and installing the 3.5.3.2. drivers, and I achieve sync between the two 828mkiis. A few simple test-records at single and double speed sample rates show it's performing well (not stuttering or losing sync)

One moment of panic when installing the second OS ruined the first one (probably because you're supposed to install them in order of release, but I already had Winpro x64 tweaked and all...) but windows setup managed to fix the problem and the only thing I had to reinstall (so far) was IE7beta, all my other data and apps seem fine (again, so far).

The laptop appears to be out of luck because it's SP2 and I don't have another Windows license without SP2, plus it's firewire chipset is VIA. I don't really feel like buying a firewire PCMIA card and another Windows license just to save from doing a little heavy lifting. Heck, I need the excercise.

Thanks again everyone.

SO DO I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY THAT THE NEW 64 BIT DRIVERS FROM MOTU WOULD HAVE NO EFFECT ON YOUR SYNC ISSUE. I DONT USE WINDOWS... BUT MAN..SOUNDS LIKE I WOULD NEED AND I.T. DEGREE TO USE ONE.

AgincourtDB · Post by **AgincourtDB** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:43 pm

As far as I understand it, Winpro 64 has the same issue that XP SP2 has, and therefore multiple MOTU fw interfaces can't be daisy-chained while running that OS. It certainly didn't work for me, and MOTU's reply certainly implies that it doesn't work period.

I've found the beta x64 drivers to be stable running just one interface though. Which is good, as I'll be doing most of my mixing in Sonar 5 Producer x64.

millerto · Post by **millerto** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:42 am

BradLyons wrote:Are you on the PC? If so, this is currently an issue with Service Pack 2. The OS technically does not allow for multiple hardware devices to be daisy-chained together via firewire. However, there are a few workarounds:

2. Use the optical ports (if available) to send ADAT out of one interface into another. This will allow for a full track count while only having 1 unit in the Firewire bus.

Brad, YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!!!

After screwing around trying to update drivers and figure out how to daisychain my two 828Mk2s via Firewire...I just took one of my unused optical cables (available at Radio Shack, Comp USA, etc.), hooked teh optical out from the first unit to the optical in of the second, set the optical out and in to ADAT, set a 96 kHz sample rate with the receiving unit's clock source set to ADAT 88/96.....AND IT WORKS FINE!!!!!!!

(n.b. to get the full 8 channels of ADAT I'd have to step down to 48 kHz, but you can easily convert back and forth as needed).

Folks, you simply cannot get better product advice or customer support than Sweetwater sales reps will give you, they are AWESOME!!!!!

Terrell Miller
-loyal Sweetwater customer (Michael Eads) since 2004

AgincourtDB · Post by **AgincourtDB** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:52 am

millerto wrote:
BradLyons wrote:Are you on the PC? If so, this is currently an issue with Service Pack 2. The OS technically does not allow for multiple hardware devices to be daisy-chained together via firewire. However, there are a few workarounds:

2. Use the optical ports (if available) to send ADAT out of one interface into another. This will allow for a full track count while only having 1 unit in the Firewire bus.

Brad, YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!!!

After screwing around trying to update drivers and figure out how to daisychain my two 828Mk2s via Firewire...I just took one of my unused optical cables (available at Radio Shack, Comp USA, etc.), hooked teh optical out from the first unit to the optical in of the second, set the optical out and in to ADAT, set a 96 kHz sample rate with the receiving unit's clock source set to ADAT 88/96.....AND IT WORKS FINE!!!!!!!

(n.b. to get the full 8 channels of ADAT I'd have to step down to 48 kHz, but you can easily convert back and forth as needed).

Folks, you simply cannot get better product advice or customer support than Sweetwater sales reps will give you, they are AWESOME!!!!!

Terrell Miller
-loyal Sweetwater customer (Michael Eads) since 2004

Right, but you understand that you're using it as an expensive A/D converter for the first sound card and not a second sound card, right? You're limited to the channel count of the first one if you do it this way.

millerto · Post by **millerto** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:25 am

AgincourtDB wrote:Right, but you understand that you're using it as an expensive A/D converter for the first sound card and not a second sound card, right? You're limited to the channel count of the first one if you do it this way.

oh, forgot to describe what I'm doing:

I bought the second one to replace an old Roland VM-3100 Pro digital mixer that has some sync issues of its own and can only run at 44.1 kHz.

The first 828Mk2 is the "nexus" of my sound system. Not only does it take the ADATs from the new 828Mk2 and Firewire them into my laptop, but I also have two outboard effects loops set up for use in Cubase. basically I take the analog 1-2 outs from the first 828Mk2, run them into an Aphex 204 and a Behringer DEQ2496, then bring them back in via the analog 1-2 inputs on the first MOTU. THen analog outs 3-4 go through a LExicon reverb and back into the MOTU. Those get used as effects buses in Cubase, so I can route individual tracks through the Aphex or the reverb as needed.

I also use the remaining analog ins for the first MOTU for mic and guitar, so it sums the ADATS from the second unit woith other inputs.

Moral of the story: there's always a way around any problem, you just have to look in different places for the solution.