DAE vs. MAS

[brightscreamer]

What are the pros/cons of running DP in DAE/MAS? I'm trying to run it in DAE but I always get an error message that reverts the audio system to MIDI only. I'm trying to figure out if it is even worth the hassle of troubleshooting. Thanks!

[Frodo]

.... I'm trying to run it in DAE but I always get an error message ...

Well, there's one of the major cons right there. Drove me NUTS for a good long while.

I started out with Audiomedia III cards years ago and just about threw everything out the window until I went MAS. I'm all MAS and AU at the moment and am all the happier for it.

(and for all of you Yes fans out there, you'll appreciate the phrase "total MAS retain"!!!)

DAE has been odd at more times than have been comfortable since DP v 2.x...

[mistermarr]

You might want to specify what kind of digi hardware and computer/OS and version of DP you have for more specific answers. Off the top of my head...

For DAE--

Pros: Uses your digi hardware for most of your audio processing, taking a huge load off your computer and leaving that for additional RTAS plugs and softsynths. Zero latency route-through so you can listen to the returns of what you are recording. Some say TDM plugs sound better.

Cons: Murky support, especially when it comes to VI's working. No Rewire! No access to any included MAS plugs. No DP pitch tools. Buggy voice allocation.

I guess reverse those for MAS.

[brightscreamer]

I'm using a 1.67 Ghz Powerbook G4 with 2 gigs of RAM. My interface is an Edirol UA-25...

[96khz]

You can only use DAE (Digidesign Audio Engine) with Digidesign hardware. So, with your Edirol interface you can only use Motu Audio System.

[pcm]

And not just any Digidesign hardware, it must be HD hardware. The expensive stuff.

[Resonant Alien]

And not just any Digidesign hardware, it must be HD hardware. The expensive stuff.

Really?? Wow. I always assumed you could run DAE even with a Digi 002 or M-Box. Good ole' Digi.....

[pcm]

If you want to use the PTLE interfaces (Mbox, 002, etc.), you continue to use MAS, but connect to the Digi interfaces. I think it's called Direct Connect, or something like that. You are still using MAS.

DAE is something else entirely. You are not merely using the Digi interfaces, you are using the entire Digidesign Audio Engine (hence, DAE). You get to use the TDM plugins, Quick Punch, and all the other Pro Tools goodies. The DP mixer now has no latency, so you can even send headphone feeds directly to the musicians. You are clearly no longer in MAS. All of this requires PTHD hardware. You are basically running a PTHD system, but using DP as the software front end. Obviously, you can't do this with a 002, as it is "host-based", just like DP-MAS.

I own two of these systems. Running DP under DAE is not without it's issues, but it feels like a $15k system when you do. At least half of DP's issues completely go away (based on my experience, I think half of DP issues are MAS itself). And it's fast as ****. Anyone who thinks TDM is going away anytime soon clearly has never spent any time with it. It's not just a little better, it's ten times better.

Running DP under DAE con seriously spoil you, run it at you own peril....

[Resonant Alien]

pcm - Thanks for the info. I love DP, and everyone always trashes Digi - and maybe with LE that is warranted to a degree, but you gotta think that there really IS a difference between PTHD and other DAWs - DP, Logic et al....otherwise, I cannot imagine that so many people would continue spending $10k-$15k on PTHD systems when they could have another DAW for 10% of that or less.

Maybe where Digi gets such a bad rap is with the TDM plugs - OK, I'll buy that the PTHD hardware can be faster and cleaner, but why do TDM plugs cost twice what the native versions cost? There really can't be much difference between the two....

[spirit]

TDM plugins are likely priced higher mostly because the marketers presume that if you spent $15k+ on a system you can and will pay more for the plugin you want. There may be a smaller user base meaning r+d has to be paid more per user, and it's possible that it takes more porting time to get from a native platform to working on a TDM chip then from one Native platform to another. Of course that wouldn't explain the expense for the large number of plug ins that STARTED as TDM (tdm was pretty much the first pro DAW plug in format- with waves being one of/ or the first third party plugin developers.).
DP 4.6 in DAE mode seems to bog down and get slow and unstable considerably more easily than the same session ported to ProTools. But could a native DP session have 60 tracks, 40 or 50 double precision eq plugins, 20+ compressors six different virual instruments, maybe 120 voices between them and a few reverbs to boot?