Which should I get - UAD-1 Flexi or Logic Pro?

Dubnick · Post by **Dubnick** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:56 am

Hey guys, this might be a bit off topic, but GC is doing one of those 12 month no interest deals and I was original hoping to use the opportunity to pick up UAD-1 Flexi so I can mix as easily in DP as in PT with the same or maybe even better results (no offense to MOTU, but the stock compressors are God awful). Anyhow, that was my plan, but I noticed that this month GC is also running a $200 rebate on Logic Pro 7.2, bringing the price down to $799 (which is still a bit steep for just software, but oh well). So now I'm a little torn. I originally picked up the DP competitive crossgrade to have a PT alternative at the ready, and I like some aspects a lot (especially the PDC and ease of transition from PT), but a couple of the weirder long standing bugs (like dissappearing MIDI notes in the drum editor) and the semi-shady response about said bugs by MOTU tech support have me thinking that maybe DP isn't the best horse to bet on for my long-term main DAW. I'm on PPC and won't be going MacIntel anytime soon, so I feel like if I'm going to jump on the Logic bus, now might be the best time, while it's still compatible. On the other hand, even if I did pick up Logic Pro without the UAD-1 card, I'd lack an 1176 stand-in, which is a crucial compressor in a lot of stuff I do with drums and vocals. I know from the little bit of messing around I've done with Logic Express that the stock compressors, while not having any kind of 1176 equivelent among them, will be easier to make work as an 1176 stand-in then any of the DP compressors (I also have the URS Classic Console Compressors 1970 and 1980, which work in a pinch for the same applications). Still, if Logic Pro is has the same sort of ghost in the machine type bugs as DP, I feel like I might be better investing in the UAD-1 and sticking with DP as my PT alternative - even if some Tech Support response is shady, at least there is some. Any opinions from both UAD-1 and Logic Pro owners would be great. Thanks everyone!

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:45 pm

The UAD-1 works great with DP. If you're really only looking to step up your compressor abilites, then I'd recommend the UAD-1 (which has the best plug-in comps I've used).

BTW: I agree with you regarding DP's native comps. Pretty weak. They certainly don't impart any interesting character which you'll get in spades with UAD-1 comps.

Dubnick · Post by **Dubnick** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:37 pm

Hey there shanabit - thanks for responding and for your input, although I think I was a bit in articulate in describing my dilema. I guess I'm just wondering if I should postpone my plans to pick up the UAD-1 and take advantage of the Logic Pro rebate deal, my logic (no pun intended) being that, while I'd much prefer to have the UAD-1 1176 to work with, I'm thinking I could get by with the Logic stock compressors till later. Also, maybe I should better explain my rational for wandering from DAW to DAW. I use Pro Tools LE w/MPT right now as my main system, and I have to admit, that overall, I'm pretty happy with it - there are always problems with big updates, but to thier credit, they actually are pretty quick about responding on thier messageboard and seem to troubleshoot relatively quickly, which something I've come to appreciate immensely since dealing with the some of the MOTU Support (although some MOTU personal have been very cool, even though all responses take about a week). So your probably asking yourself, "Why the hell is this guy looking for another DAW is he's happy?" Well, it's mainly because of Digi's reluctance to compete, feature-wise, on native systems (paying extra cash for 48 audio tracks is about as crappy as it gets and PT LE might be the last Native program to employ PDC/ADC) but also, being tied to an overpriced interface that comes complete with a faulty Power Harness and no many i/o or clocking options. It seems to me that Digi might be turning into the Xerox/IBM of DAWs, attempting to protect thier HD revenue to the point that they're blinding themselves to the sea change in the Pro and Project landscapes and my gut tells me they're not gonna catch on quick enough for my needs. As much as I love PT LE (I'll always have it around), I'll never be able to afford an PT HD system, nor would I buy one if I could. With this in mind, I've been looking for a DAW that will be a good step up from PT LE in the future, but will also be useful today in picking up some of the slack PT LEs feature set. DPs feature set was appealling and I do love a lot about it - aside from a couple very annoying problems and the fact that the stock compressors are really, really bad (no offense - it's not like PT's stock plugs are stunning, but the stock compressor is usable in a pinch and the BF 1176, while not nearly as good as the UA original or digital versions, is definately great for a free plug) but what is more troubling and has me contemplating Logic Pro, in spite of it's totally non-intuitive interface, is the fact that a long term problem like the disappearing note fiasco, as well as other long term issues I've been seeing pop-up here seem to go permanently unfixed and ignored by Tech Support. This leads me to believe that MOTU might be too small a company to stay a real long term contender among the bigger DAWs and this since I'm looking for a DAW that will eventually serve as my main app, I'd rather have some assurance that the software will be maintained. I realize that since being bought by Apple, Logic's tech support reputation become less than stellar, which is why, in part, I am seeking your advice (thanks, btw). So now that I've rambled for like an hour, I should sum up by sayin that I am not looking for a DAW based on stock compressor choice alone, but my apprehension about the current and future upkeep and tech support on DP from MOTU along with the lack of a compressor decent enough to at least do the job in a pinch when not a PCI is not available (Powerbook) have convinced me to keep looking, at least for the moment. Just so this doesn't come off as being just an anti-DP rant, I should also say that the Masterworks EQ is terrific - maybe one of the best interfaces on an EQ ever and sounds great, I love the drum editor concept (which is why it's inherent bug is such a bummer) and some of DP's stock plugs are far more creative and fun than PT's. Also, while not as efficient as the newer versions of PT LE, DP does seem rock solid. I also agree that DPs interface is way more like PTs than Logic. Anyhow, I'm sooooo OT, I'd be surprised if anyone is still reading by this point so I'm going to stop. I'll definately take the input into consideration and hopefully more of you will chime in - thanks!

shanabit wrote:Myself, I wouldnt jump from DAW to DAW looking for a compressor thats close to an 1176. Thats crazy, just buy third party plugs to get you were you need to be. Prootools itself has crappy plugs that come with it IMO.

If Im not mistaken, you just recently switched to DP did you not?
Im aware of the issues you were having with ProTools.

Not picky at you at all, just trying to get you to NOT keep blowing your wad looking for the perfect DAW, its aint out there my man!!!

Problem here is this, youll have ProTools, DP, Logic and then finally NUENDO. You CANT learn them all inside and out and be productive.

The audio editing in Logic sucks IMO, DP is way ahead. MIDI in Logic rocks along with the plugs that come with it.

DP is way more like ProTools than Logic. Logic is a LOT like SX3 IMO

MOTU's support SUCKKX
Logic doesnt have ANY support from APPLE unless you want to pay for it everytime. Their boards are all ya get, sorta like MOTU I guess.

That being said, $800 for full Logic is a great price!!!!
Which way will give your more milage? Logic or DP with the UAD?

Hope this helps some

Dubnick · Post by **Dubnick** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:56 pm

Chrispick -
Thanks for your input - I'm actually thinking what I might do is pick up the UAD-1 first since I know I want it, and then, if I can afford to do it and it seems like a decent idea, pick up the Logic Pro while the rebate is happening. Maybe I'm just overeacting to my own enounter with the disappearing MIDI notes in the drum editor, but I'm now very leary (is that the right word?) of some of the other bugs I see reported on this board (chunks missing from BTD and freezes, automation disappearing). Crashes can be annoying but losing actual info from sessions is not something I think I can tolerate. I'm still going to give DP a fair shake, but I feel like I should take advantage of the discount and see if I don't like it better. Anyhow, thanks for your input and glad you know what I'm talking about in regards to the DP comps - it would be great to see MOTU pair up with WaveArts or PSP to make or license a halfway decent compressor/limiter, even though it wouldn't touch the UAD-1 comps. Wish McDSP's CompressorBank and Digidesign's Smack came in AU versions, but that ain't gonna happen. Oh well.

chrispick wrote:The UAD-1 works great with DP. If you're really only looking to step up your compressor abilites, then I'd recommend the UAD-1 (which has the best plug-in comps I've used).

BTW: I agree with you regarding DP's native comps. Pretty weak. They certainly don't impart any interesting character which you'll get in spades with UAD-1 comps.

newrigel · Post by **newrigel** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:59 pm

I just purchsed an SSL Nuende and got rid of my UAD and Liquid MIX... I know it's twice the $$ but it sounds FANTASTIC and the newer macs are going PCI Express so the firewire thing is better for my upgrading endeavors when the Octal MacPro's come out... you may want to keep this in mind.

Dubnick · Post by **Dubnick** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:12 am

If I was a big fan of the SSL compressors, I'd probably do the same - don't get me wrong, they're obviously great and highly coveted, but I'm just a huge fan of 1176s on stuff like snares and aggressive vocals. I'm sure Duendo is great, but for the type of stuff I'd use an SSL-style compressor on (mix buss, room mics, etc) the URS 1980 does the job fine for me. Wish I knew you were selling the UAD-1, I would have bought it.

newrigel wrote:I just purchsed an SSL Nuende and got rid of my UAD and Liquid MIX... I know it's twice the $$ but it sounds FANTASTIC and the newer macs are going PCI Express so the firewire thing is better for my upgrading endeavors when the Octal MacPro's come out... you may want to keep this in mind.

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:49 am

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it, but I think you can use the UAD-1 card with almost all the DAWs, PT, DP, Logic, etc... - I recently bought Logic, and then sold it 6 months later (I won't get into it, but everytime I started a project in Logic, I ended up finishing it in DP - the audio editing, etc...) - if you are staying with PPC, the UAD-1 card makes sense as it helps ease the CPU load as well (Logic's compressor didn't totally excite me as well compared the options you have in the UAD card - the LA2a. the 1176, the fairchild, and even the Precision limiter - all useful for different tasks).

To be fair, Logic has some good VIs, but I use NI Komplete 3, which I think is overall more comprehensive.

swiftness · Post by **swiftness** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:58 am

Sorry, not to be the grammar police, but it's Duende

Not Nuende or Duendo

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:52 am

Nuende... new end?
Duendo... two nuendos?
In nuendos?

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:08 pm

First, decide if you want Digital Performer or Logic. Second, decide the plugins you want. This is like picking what house to buy based on the color of carpet that is in it, you can always change the carpet to something you like if what you like isn't in there.

As to DUENDE and NUENDO, man this is confusing! I have clients calling me asking for Steinberg Duendo and the SSL Nuende...SERIOUSLY! What's worse is about 1/2 of them think they were designed to only work with each other.