BUY A WORD CLOCK OR A BETTER I/O? You make the call!!

boccaccio7070 · Post by **boccaccio7070** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:35 pm

Hello folks

I have a G5- dual 2.5. For the most part, all my sounds now emenate from inside the MAC itself, in form of plug-ins or pci cards

I still have my internally clocked 1224/424 pci I/O...(Yuk)
Run most sessions at 24bit/44.1k (yuk with a bit more more air)

What would be most beneficial, in your own mind

a sensibly priced word clock to reduce the 1224 jitter?
or a better grade I/O system ie a Mackie Onyx400-Apogee Rosetta 200/Ensemble, or whats your own choice?
Or Do i have to get up in the $3000+ range to hear a big difference. would a clock reduce jitter enough to make a hearable difference in my present system?

i want a vibrant non collapsed soundstage and a depth i can be proud of, but not have to pimp my little sister, Jody, in the process. Her own Pimp, Marcel Dupree, is a dangerous man to know, and I'd really rather not get involved.....

GEAR SLUT ADVISORY: MOTU Digital Performer 5, Mach 5 and MX4 synth-Spectrasonics Atmosphere,Stylus RMX,Trilogy-IK Miraslov Philharmonic and CSR Reverb-Garritan Personal Orch-NI Absynth3, Kontakt 2 Sampler & Akoustik Piano-AltiVerb 5-UVI Ultrafocus Synth-Wizoo W2 Reverb-Camel Space/Phatt/Cameleon 5000 synth-G force Minimonsta--Vanguard Synth-Ambient Keys Synth-Lounge Lizard 3 Electric Piano's- 2 UAD1 cards- Ozone 3 Mastering suite-SFX Machine DSP FX- Auto-Tune 4-Rycycle-Genelec 1031A's with KRK Sub- Focusrite Mic/inst pre-RODE NT1-A & -Groove Tubes GT67 Tube Mic. Yamaha MO6 synth keyboard & 88 key weighted Master keyboard

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:53 pm

Well, jitter is an artifact of A-to-D or D-to A conversion. If the large majority of your sound creation occurs in the box, then the only audio conversion to consider practically is monitor playback. That is, you don't have other external analog devices like add-on preamps to clock, do you? You just want to make sure you're hearing things correctly.

If your 1224 is unsatisfactory in the above regard, then maybe look at a dedicated D-to-A monitoring solution like the Benchmark DAC1 (about $1000 US new).

re: 24bit / 44.1k -- Nothing wrong with that. In fact, if you're creating most sounds via VI or plugin processing, then you wouldn't likely reap most of the definition benefits of higher sample rate.

FWIW: I use a Rosetta 200 for clocking and A/D/D/A.

FWIW2: I think there's a lot of hype regarding clocking. When I added my Rosetta to my DAW, I noted better low-end definition, but it wasn't as "night and day" as some people will have you believe. For me, it's more about quality control than anything else. Having all my A/D/D/A clocked by a single, reliable source ensures that any muddy mix I make is my fault, not the gear's.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:15 am

I have a 2408mk3, MTP-AV both locked to a Lucid GenX6. Occassionally, I still use my tried and faithful Akai DR16 HD recorder which has a BNC. Anything in my studio with a BNC is connected to the Lucid. Works great-- no more dropped frames, no more pops and clicks, no more jitter.

Options:

Buy one of the Lucids or similar:
http://www.lucidaudio.com/index.php

Go all out with a Big Ben or similar:
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/bigben.php

Have your MOTU interface's clock analog stage and clock upgraded:
http://www.blacklionaudio.com/motu_firewire_mod.html

Users on this forum and others have raved about all three options. Some people wouldn't clock with anything other than Apogee BB. I wouldn't think a WC for $3k would be necessary. How much better the Apogee is than the Lucid? Dunno. IS it better? Probably, but I have nothing scientific other than the price difference. Is the Lucid a great WC? Absolutely, without a doubt. Good price, too.

Some forum links-- good discussions:
http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ulti ... 002983;p=1

http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/showthread.php?t=5769

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=141166

What Are The Benefits of Using a Word Clock?

azusa749a · Post by **azusa749a** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:34 am

I think it's a waste of money on an external wordclock because you work mostly on softsyth.
The Blacklion modification seems like a better way to go.

boccaccio7070 · Post by **boccaccio7070** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:22 am

thanks to all 3 who quickly responded...now if only MOTU tech support could model it's behavior after you 3

When i spoke of 2-3K i was speaking in terms of a AD/DA with word clock built in ala rosetta 200, or the Lavry Blue AD/DA convertor

at this point, is the 1224 worth doing a mod to? I will never record at 192, but isnt the 1224 pretty long in the tooth now. I believe it was a great value for its time, but has its time passed?

The only thing i will have going into whatever interface I (you-we) choose will be the digital out put of a focusrite voice master pro spdif. I also have a yamaha MO6 that has sdif output, but that was bought as much for its synth action to compliment my weighted keys as anything else. I just sold my TC M3000 reverb because i want to dump the analog mixer and no one seems to make a spdif expansion box (which I find very strange. the manufacturers pushed us into a digital corner, but leave us only one spdif input?) At this point i cant even use the dpdif of the focusrite,as the 1224 is spdif barren

the 1224 is 10 years old now in design (if not older ) i bought mine in 98, after Opcode vanished , so i just figured a new mellenium interface might give me a new millenium sound....the frail assumptions we drag thru life.....will i notice a better imaging and clarity uumphh with anything you or I have suggested compared to the stock 1224 i have? Will i have to buy $100 per foot cables to notice? or is it all just gear slut hype?

Would something as cheap as a Mackie Onyx 400 or a rackmount focusrite sapphire pro do it? Seems i am paying for things i dont need (mic pre's) or will a $1200-$1500 box with no mic pre's bring my mixes up a notch (comparatively-not artistically. i'm on my own there). Or will the prosonus central station render any sonic improvement mute when my sordid signal crawls from its slimy outputs

I love/ hate being a gear slut, but in this case, i think this is a crucial crossroads for me. so i appreciate your time and

thanks again for your insights

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:49 am

boccaccio7070 wrote:Would something as cheap as a Mackie Onyx 400 or a rackmount focusrite sapphire pro do it? Seems i am paying for things i dont need (mic pre's) or will a $1200-$1500 box with no mic pre's bring my mixes up a notch (comparatively-not artistically. i'm on my own there). Or will the prosonus central station render any sonic improvement mute when my sordid signal crawls from its slimy outputs

Well, I use a Tascam FW-1804 as a rackmount interface and Rosetta 200 as A/D/D/A (to my pres and monitors).

The FW-1804 gives me multiple channels of i/o, great interaction with DP (buffers as high as 4096), and multiple digital throughput (spdif and TOSlink). Everything clocks to the Rosetta via BNC. All pres go through the Rosetta for A-to-D, then through the FW-1804 and into my Mac via TOSlink. Playback audio goes the other way, through the FW-1804 via SPDIF into the Rosetta where it's D-to-A'ed for monitors.

So, short answer: I think any audio interface with digital I/O will work with those Lavrys or Apogees.

Again, if you're not using external pres and such, you probably don't need a dedicated clock. The DAC-1 I mentioned before has its own jitter-free D/A. Not that I mean to push that device specifically; it just seems like it might be the least-expensive, quality choice.