NI KORE with DP...

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:55 am

That and the fact that it is currently a little broken. The driver just does not work right on a lot of machines, mine included.

If you look at the activity monitor, you'll see having the unit just plugged in can take 30 to 40 percent CPU activity.

Of course, they are aware of this, and I am sure will fix it. I don't think the KORE application is broken, just the driver and USB communication. It's probably some thread blocking issue. Of course, it happens on Macs and PCs, so they probably tried to use the same trick on both and it didn't work

As far as latency, I run my VI machine with VERY FAST latency settings to try and get it to be as close as an external unit would be.

quadrupolesmurf · Post by **quadrupolesmurf** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:09 pm

grimepoch wrote: If you look at the activity monitor, you'll see having the unit just plugged in can take 30 to 40 percent CPU activity.

You have got to be kidding. 30-40%? Don't even tell me this is on a dual processor G5.

That clearly makes Kore utterly useless. "KORE: Think in sounds, we'll acutally don't think of too many sounds".

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:20 pm

This is on a G4 1.2Ghz, not a G5. It's more usable on a G5 for sure, but there are other issues related to the audio driver problem. Since the audio driver is used to communicate the non-audio information with the kore controller (from what I can tell that has been talked about at NI), these latency issues are causing a few other problems. Not to say people aren't using it, enjoying it, and being productive, it's just that on a usability scale of say, using the plugins directly in your host, it's eating up too much to justify it if you are using your system right to the edge, like I do, anyways.

Jaysplace101 · Post by **Jaysplace101** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:57 pm

Yeah, but Rick, is it better if you run it standalone? Seems like that's what Kwiz was saying..... that in standalone, it's not taking the big bite out of the CPU cycles..... is that what you find?

Thanks for all your insight.

j

mixo · Post by **mixo** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:12 pm

i'm using kore with dp5.01 and work well. i can see kore on the instrument menu. no problems. i buyed a second kore as stand alone on my second mac. and works fine.

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:24 pm

For me, in stand-alone, it uses the same resources. The problem in a host is that the host resources are also being used. It's not as efficient as it could be, but me running a G4 really shows it. Some people with G5s are reporting high utilization of the cpu on the NI list. For some people there is no problem.

One of the common misconceptions is that people are looking at KORE's CPU meter. It's wrong. If you go start the Activity Monitor you will see the real CPU usage. KORE tells me 1%, the cpu meter is hovering around 30 to 40 % with NOTHING loaded in the KORE performance.

However, as I said, these are known issues that NI have acknowledged. Not everyone has this problem, but a good number do, so they are trying to determine what the problem is.

If I hear something more, I will certainly put it on here.

Rick

porieux · Post by **porieux** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:48 pm

I wouldn't count on waiting for NI to come out with polished software.
Doesn't really seem to be their MO; they seem to just kind of leave
users hanging and then try to get them to upgrade to a newer version for $$$.
Which is exactly what they did with Traktor, which I can't use even though I paid good money for it.

I hope I'm wrong, for your sake.

kwiz · Post by **kwiz** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:37 am

Jaysplace101 wrote:
kwiz wrote:
Jaysplace101 wrote:So are you running standalone with DP Kwiz? If so, is that working pretty well?

j
Yes it's pretty cool, I use 2 G5 dual 1.8's.

G5 1 is for audio only, the second is for VI's. On the VI machine I use a MOTU fastlane connected to a MidiTimepiece thats connected to machine 1. The VI's (G5 two) are bussed to a Tascam DM-24 console via firewire.
The DM's firewire option allows me to have 24 channels of I/O. I then bus VI outputs to DP inputs.
And when you're running core stand alone, the CPU hit is OK then, right? That sounds like a great setup.... It surprises me that you're able to deal with the latency running it that way. Latency was my biggest issue when I tried to run two computers in a similar situation.

j

The CPU hit is still pretty big depending on what VI's you have loaded.
I find that when I run the same VI's in standalone without Kore, the hit is smaller. As far as latency goes, it hasn't been a problem for me, even when I'm set at 1024! Maybe the firewire interface in my DM-24 has something to do with that.
I've decided to drop KORE for now, I'm returning it.
NI is about 60-70% there with it but I could be putting my money to better use somewhere else. (Duende or Liquid Mix) At this point I can live without it. I'm trying not to upgrade my G5 this year so it's probably wiser for me to add more DSP horsepower for my mixes.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e242/ ... 5308.jpg<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e242/ ... 535308.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

kwiz · Post by **kwiz** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:31 am

Rick (grimepoch),

I've been checking the NI Kore user forum and people still seem to be having various issue's with Kore. Have you downloaded the latest update, and if so has there been any improvement on your system?

Jaysplace101 · Post by **Jaysplace101** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:18 pm

kwiz wrote:Rick (grimepoch),

I've been checking the NI Kore user forum and people still seem to be having various issue's with Kore. Have you downloaded the latest update, and if so has there been any improvement on your system?

I'll second that inquiry..... I'd really like to know if this is working any better for anyone...???

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:45 am

Sorry it took me so long to get back, the board seemed to not be working when I had a moment to post.

I installed the update and it feels like it's a tiny bit better (I am running on a mini). The real CPU usage is a bit higher, but that might be like DP in that KORE just uses up CPU while nothing is running just to keep the system going.

It looks like I loose 5 to 10% inside KORE on top of the plugin. At least, that is what it is reporting.

With nothing running (meaning KORE software) the CPU usage is the same without the USB hooked up, so that is good.

I've not been completely motivated to use it yet as my plan is to move it on to my G5 when the new powermac's come out and use the G5 as a soft synth machine.

So, in summary, some progress, but I think a little more could be made. I still need to learn how to use the host, I am a bit lost in it and too much other stuff to do at the moment.

kwiz · Post by **kwiz** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:12 am

Thanks Rick,

I'll wait a few more months to see if it's worth me purchasing again.
I already use a second G5 for softsynths only and Kore wasn't making me love it. After speaking to NI reps and performing numerous un-installs/installs it still only worked marginally for me at best. Some synths (FM7- B4) wouldn't even load properly and using the Kore hardware as a controller for plugins was more of a PITA than a benefit due to the multiple pages that you'd have to scroll through, the lack of writing automation in DP, and the constant looking at the monitor to confirm what you've changed because the abreviations on Kore were sometimes questionable.

I'm keeping my G5 1.8's for at least another year so I'm going to invest in Liquid Mix. A different animal but hopefully it will work and sound as advertised. It's suppose to drop in about a month according to my man at Sweetwater.

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:16 am

I'm still undecided on the whole thing at the moment. I got it for a decent deal so I am going to keep it for now on my MINI (and my G5 eventually), as I needed MIDI and AUDIO out of either of those machines and for now, I was okay with running it out of the KORE. Not ideal mind you as I'd like a few more inputs and outputs, but it will do for now.

My dilemna if you will was patch changing. I hate having to load up additional files in RAX (the old version) or DP on the second machine. Pure laziness there

So I was envisioning using KORE for that purpose. Of course, I've not even tried it yet and heard there were issues with sample based plugins.

I still own RAX as well, and heard that it now supports changing the loaded set of instruments based on MIDI in patch changes. The thing I DO like about KORE was the GUI layout. I like NI GUI's, as I've been using Reaktor for a few years now.

All this aside, when the OS has node support of AU's, the KORE will be useless to me then, so this might all go away for me. Although, I could still see using it live as a live performance controller maybe with Abelton, but I've not really thought that through yet.

What I am doing is saving up for a new Mac tower when they come out. I want to get on that bandwagon so I can get more plugins running when they are all universal. The performance of the MacBook Pro in logic compared to a dual 2.3Ghz G5 was AMAZING. So of course, I am super excited about that. Mostly, and hopefully, running at a low buffer setting and not having OZONE throw me into the red.

I will keep the Kore for a bit longer, but it's possible it might go away if the features I have requested in DP and the CoreAudio group go in.

Now to go play with the Neve plugin demo on my UAD, wow it sounds sweet on vocals...