Black Lion MOTU Interface Modifications

[Sergievsky]

I actually think its cool you're using your real name. To me it gives more weight to your posts, since it's coming from someone who is willing to own up to what he says.

Anyway, I kinda wish I did the Black lion stuff just before all the buzz ( and the price increase for the digi002r). Am glad this mod is available. More testimonies pls!

[TrakMstrE]

....I have a 2408 mkI. I'm planning on getting a PCI-424 card soon. Will this mod work on any version of the 2408, and does the mod require sending both the breakout box ANd the card? Just want to be sure I didn't miss anything....Thanks!!

Edison

[RhythmRmixd]

Just got my 828mkII back from Matt yesterday and it sounds great. Everything is more defined within the stereo field and its easier to tell where an instrument is sitting in the mix. I do a lot of hip hop music, and the kick and snare both have more punch and snap in many of my MIDI sequences that I re-recorded to disk. The mod is worth it!

[arbeeny]

I did the traveller mod with black lion and will begin by saying im not unhappy. They were very professional to deal with and delivered on schedule as promised.

The unit behaves fine, however there is one point that bears mentioning. After the clock mod, the unit will not properly sync to other clocks. It wants to always be the master. Additionally, there is an extra switch added to switch between the base frequency of 44.1KHz and 48K
Hz. It was easy to overcome these issues, but I didnt feel that it was particularly clear up front. I did have to change the way I work a little and move around the signal path so the Traveler is happy.

As far as the sonic differences, it is probably a bit better but I cant determine if it is due to the better clock or converters. And, more importantly, im not at all convinced that it is not something that could be achieved with a little careful EQ from a high quality unit like a Pultec or Oxford. Add a little high frequency here, and a little mid-cut there and you'd be pretty damn close.

Now the big question...All that being said, If I had another unit to modify, I would probably do it again becasue the price is cheap and atleast you wont have to wonder..."gee I bet this would sound better with the Black Lion mods". If you dont want to have nightmares...dont sleep in the cemetary.

Steele Arbeeny

[Sergievsky]

Thanks for the honest reply. That thought about the clock having problems slaving actually popped into my head, and it definitely would be an issue for me since my studio is run from a Big Ben. Although, I do have other non-modified equipment that has problems being slaved (Digi 002R using non-PT, M-audio 410 being flaky). But therein lies the problem, if you have two gears who don't like to be slaved, what do you do?

As for the quality, I've often read the last 10% of the sound quality is much more expensive than the first 90...or something like that (sorry I suck at english). I'm thinking though that the traveler is already pretty good to begin with, so perhaps it is now getting near that upper echelon area where apogee and Lavry resides?

Did you email Matt about the clock issue?

[iMAS]

The unit behaves fine, however there is one point that bears mentioning. After the clock mod, the unit will not properly sync to other clocks. It wants to always be the master.

Did they warn you this was going to happen ? What are they saying with regards to this issue ?

[azusa749a]

....I have a 2408 mkI. I'm planning on getting a PCI-424 card soon. Will this mod work on any version of the 2408, and does the mod require sending both the breakout box ANd the card? Just want to be sure I didn't miss anything....Thanks!!

Edison

You don't need to send the 2408 with the card. They have it.
I sent mine with only the 2408 mk3 for both mods.
They don't need to do anything with the card.

[arbeeny]

The unit behaves fine, however there is one point that bears mentioning. After the clock mod, the unit will not properly sync to other clocks. It wants to always be the master.

Did they warn you this was going to happen ? What are they saying with regards to this issue ?

I was not informed up-front that the modified Traveler needs to be the clock master. It was only after I noticed it drifting in and out of sync as a slave to my RME equipment (Which has a pretty damn good clock).
It might have been mentioned in some small print somewhere or in the newsgroup, but I didnt know up-front. I willing to admit this may have been an oversight on my part.

But therein lies the problem, if you have two gears who don't like to be slaved, what do you do?

The simplest solution would be to only use one at a time. For example you could record guitar through the Traveler as the clock master. Then switch to record vocals through your 002R and make it the master. Odds are you will run into problems if you need to run both masters at the same time. The other alternative is that you can try to run your clock synchronization signal over coax/BNC connections if your equipment supports this. I have not tried this so I cant promise that it will work.

I did email Matt about the clock issue. His reply is below:

Hello Steele--
Correct--the MOTU wants to be the master in any sort of sync
situation--this was a design choice made because the MOTU's new clock has
good enough specs that it's comparable to something like a Lucid or Apogee
or even Lavry. I felt that, if there was an issue of needing to sync, one
would want to go with the best quality clock, which would be the new MOTU
clock. Via BNC connection, this isn't an issue. The distortion you're
getting is a phase-based distortion. The two clock signals are out of
phase with each other, and this causes distortion in the audio. The MOTU
doesn't have the ability to detect clock phase over a litepipe connection,
therefore phase distortion is created.

BTW, the 90/10 rule is true not just in terms of expense, but also in terms of effort. To achieve 90% quality takes 10% of the time, the remaining 90% of your effort will only increase quality by 10%. But in my opinion, go for the 10% or as much of it as your equipment will allow. The worst feeling in recording is to know you could have done better and chose not to.

Steele Arbeeny

[TrakMstrE]

....I have a 2408 mkI. I'm planning on getting a PCI-424 card soon. Will this mod work on any version of the 2408, and does the mod require sending both the breakout box ANd the card? Just want to be sure I didn't miss anything....Thanks!!

Edison

You don't need to send the 2408 with the card. They have it.
I sent mine with only the 2408 mk3 for both mods.
They don't need to do anything with the card.

Thanks for that bit of info.... E

[elppacam]

Hi y'all... first post.

Has MOTU responded to the Black Lion mods?

Makes you wonder...

[Smokehouse]

I'm a little confused on the clock master issue. There was a comment the it's moot if your using the BNC word clock. Just to confirm: If I get the Black Lion mod on my 828mkII, can I still slave that unit to an external BNC/coax word clock source?

[Taisoul]

So here is the deal for me.

Matt over at BLA seems very down to earth and anwers my emails quickly. I sent the unit in without the PCI card to get the ins and outs done as well as the clock. It took about a week. Just a note:
I wanted to make sure everything was upgraded including the headphone amp because I work in headphones alot at night. Can't wake up wifey and kids. Matt assured me that the whole unit would be moded. Ins OUts Headphone amp and clock. OK cool. I will go forward.

You can tell they are a small company/group of techies that seem to know what they are talking about. Some of the answers to my questions could have been in Clingon and I would have said OK sounds good.

The bad stuff

I got the unit back with this switch placed on the front. "What the F__K! OK it better sound good." I did not know this would be done and wish I was told up front but I probably would have sent it in anyway.

It came with no instructions so I had to figure out what this new toggle switch was for. I figured out it was to switch between different sample rates. OK cool.

I hooked it up and I started hearing pops and clicks. I started getting pissed that I did this to my self but I must say that the sound was nice except for the pops of course. I hooked up my Rosetta to see if the clock was the problem and it got rid of the pops. It sounded delicious by the way. I emailed Matt about the clock issue.

He offered to have it returned at his cost to fix it saying that somethng must have happened in shipping. OK I like the accountability.

Then I get another email explaining that I must have not recieved the instruction sheet. He said that I must set up my software to "EXTERNAL WORD CLOCK" Not internal. Strange but it worked and got rid of the clicks and pops. COOL.

The good stuff

The thing sounds incredible. I'm going to sell my Rosetta! The real test is in the results. See I don't care if it sounds amazing through my monitors or headphones. What I care about is can I make mixing decisions based on what I am hearing. The answer is a resounding YES!!

My Dynaudios are translating the details terrifically and my very expensive Sennheiser HD 600 headphones finally seem worth the money.

I have remixed two old tracks in two days and they are translating very well.

I am trusting what I am hearing and fixing little problems that I could not hear before. The detail is awesome. Some people sound underwhelmed but this was not the case with me. As soon as it hit my ears I said Wholy Crap! Night and day to me.

I also own an RME Multiface which I was using while my 2408 was at BLA. My moded Motu now blows the RME away. This is no easy feat seeing that the RME is a really good sounding unit.

As far as clocking to external clock it seemed to work well with my Rosetta. In fact Icould not really tell the difference between the new clock and the Apogee which is why it will be on ebay soon.

I'm still waiting on an answer reagrding clocking external units with the new motu clock. Sorry I can't help with that question.

BLA have to get on the ball in certain areas like including instructions and warning people of the canibaliztion of their hardware but all in all I would do it again because it is making my job easier.

Hope this is helpfull.

[eixb]

TosLink Is a format....

TOSlink is a transport. TOSlink's format is typically S/PDIF...although way back when toshiba created it, it actually carried a proprietary raw data format.

[gearboy]

Taisoul Said:

So here is the deal for me.

Sweet!!!

I am going to be mixing a ton of stuff that's been recorded this year (30+ songs). I am planning on having one of my MOTU828mkii interfaces modded within the next few weeks.

This raises my #1 question regarding the clock:

Will recording from the ground up with the BLA mod sound better than simply mixing with an interface that's BLA modded? What is the difference???

The reason that I am asking is that although I am planning on modding both of my 828mkii units, I'm not sure when I'll be modding #2. Is it ok to record with the stock interface and mix on the modded interface, or should I just get both modded???

Jeff[/quote]

[giles117]

TosLink Is a format....

TOSlink is a transport. TOSlink's format is typically S/PDIF...although way back when toshiba created it, it actually carried a proprietary raw data format.

Wow. Someone went deep sea diving for this one.

Thabks for the clarification in specificity.