Soft synths for DP 3??

Shixapatrol · Post by **Shixapatrol** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:42 pm

I run DP 3 in OS 9 on a Mac 733 G4. I'm looking for the best way to get a huge library of sounds. My dilema is that I would preferably like to have somthing like Giga sounds or Sample Tank...but I don't know if this current software is compatible with my older version of DP3 and OS 9. If it isn't...I will either have to upgrade my DP and OS, (anyone know the rough price of that option) or buy a hardware synth module. I've been looking at the Roland Fantom XR, which I could pick up on ebay for around 1000 bucks, but I believe it only has 128megs of onboard sounds, which I'm guessing is approx 1500 sounds(please correct me if this is a bad guess) and seems expensive to me. Ive also been looking at older roland modules such as the 1080 and the 5050, but since I don't have any experience with these, I dont know how current their sounds are. Does anyone know if I can run Giga and Sample tank on DP 3??...or a cheap solution to get some great current sounds for my older system. I'd appreciate any and all input to this problem.

Thanks for reading. Jay

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:10 am

Shix--

Virtual instruments for OS 9 may be hard to find. You might look for someone who would be willing to sell their OS 9 version of a compatible VI.

For your 733, I'd be more inclined to find a hardware sampler because virtual instruments eat up CPU power in a hurry. Hardware synths and samplers require only two MIDI cables and two audio cables.

For synths (as opposed to samplers), your choices are wide open for new and used gear, as long as you like the sounds. For samplers, the choices get strange for a variety of reasons. You mentioned Roland's "limited" library, but there are lots of Roland sounds still floating around out there. Here are my biggest sampler concerns:

1. Older hardware samplers have limited memory. The Yamaha A3000 was a terrific unit, but its RAM capacity was only 128 Mb. The Roland S760 was another incredible unit. I still have one and I still love it. Its memory capacity was something like 16 Mb when fully loaded. It did read Akai S-1100 and S-1000 formats. It really requires an external monitor to get the best out of it, but you'd have to find one with the 48k digital out, which was not standard in those days. The Akai S-3000, S-3000XL, S-3200 were favorites in the music industry, and some people still swear that they'll never part with them. RAM capacity was 32Mb.

Thing is, we've come such a long way with sample memory in terms of price and capacity. While these hardware samplers (not synths) can be had for a really good price, it's not clear if you wouldn't need two or more of them to load up enough sounds at once.

One option would be quite a leap-- and that is to get a copy of Logic 6. It runs in OS 9 and synths as well as samplers were bundled with it-- I think in Platinum 6.3.1 (or earlier?). Apple still has legacy support for earlier versions on a bare-bones website.
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Su ... /OS9%20SW/

The ESX24 sample player converts GIGA format very well, and does it without any external utilities.

But, Logic is hard to learn-- and it would take you away from DP. Such tough caveats.

The pickings are slim:

Band in a Box version 11 for OS 9
http://www.pgmusic.com/bandos9.htm

Sampletank 2 XL (OS 9 and MAS support still available, I think...)
http://www.sampletank.com/Main.html?prod_ST_XL

It's about $500, but it's really the gift that keeps on giving-- it's a lot of bang for the buck, especially if it runs MAS-native in OS 9.

You may have to contact them directly for backstock. In fact, you may want to contact a few companies who made such things for OS 9 to inquire about backstock. I'd list a few more links for you, but it's 1 AM and my brain is fried.

In the meantime, here's an old article from Mix Magazine that may be relevant, since you are using OS 9 and the 733. It's full of common sense and is called "Is It Time To Go Soft?"

http://mixonline.com/recording/applicat ... e_go_soft/

If I find any other info, I'll post it for you---

Good luck in the meantime.

jgest · Post by **jgest** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:21 am

frodo-

you always have helpful, humble and constructive posts. I'm impressed, thanks for sharring your knowledge

pencilina · Post by **pencilina** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:15 am

IMO, get a cheap PC and run VST instruments in some sort of shell host like Bidule, EnergyXt or Audiomulch. You and your G4 will be happy.

Saintmatthew · Post by **Saintmatthew** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:24 am

Shix - first of all I've played with the Roland Fantom series and they really are spectacular hardware units. Their onboard sounds are excellent. I even remember a punkish sounding guitar patch that sounded incredible. The Fantom units also have onbaord sampling which allows it to serve a dual purpose. As far as older hardware units....you can find many at rock bottom prices these days and the older Akai samplers were the best in their day. Their limited memory was offset by their programming possibilites - my s5000 can hold up to 256 meg but I haven't even maxed it out. I have 128 meg in it now and have yet to fill THAT. For good prices on older gear try www.roguemusic.com or www.musicgoround.com

As far as OS9 softsynths, it's becoming a barren landscape there. An upgrade to OX 10.3 or 4 plus DP 5 from DP 3 should clock in under $500 which will give you some bundled (and in my opinion, pretty decent) VIs. You'd probably have to beef up your hardware too but there's numerous options. A G4 (not intel) mini on ebay would save you the cost of upgrading the OS bringing your $ tag in around $750 for total.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:48 am

jgest wrote:frodo-

you always have helpful, humble and constructive posts. I'm impressed, thanks for sharring your knowledge

Thanks, J. Those are very kind words. I've lost count of the days when I was totally lost and didn't even know how to ask questions. If it weren't for others who've helped me with their generosity and patience, I'd have given up DAW-ing long ago.

I must say that I like SaintMatthew's suggestions, considering the price. My only concern would be for the 733 CPU; my old 867 single did okay with outboard MIDI gear, but 2 Altiverbs on any project practically shut everything down.

Pencilina's idea of getting a side farm on a PC is a good idea, too. Great flexibility there. I've discovered Metro, which is a nice low-profile sequencer for OS9 and OSX that runs AU and VST concurrently, so a second Mac in the 1Ghz might not be an unreasonable alternative. There is also a Windows version now, and an Intel version either in beta or soon to come.

I just hope we haven't totally lost Shix by this point!

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:32 am

jgest wrote:frodo-

you always have helpful, humble and constructive posts. I'm impressed, thanks for sharring your knowledge

I agree! Frodo's an inspiration. Notice how he NEVER gives the impression that he knows more than you, or that "you should already know that," or that any question is a waste of his time. As T.S. Eliot said:

The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
is the wisdom of humility. Humility is endless.

Frodo's got the wisdom!
Here's to you, Frodo!

Shooshie

(and thanks for all the help)

RCory · Post by **RCory** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:07 am

awww... it's a Unicornation Hug-Fest!

stephentayler · Post by **stephentayler** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:09 am

I was running DP 3 on a G4 733 machine, and Sampletank worked fine.... judging from the specs on IKMultimedia's website Sampletank is still OK for OS 9. Best ask their tech support people.

I found Sampletank to be a very servicable all-round instrument.

Stephen

jgest · Post by **jgest** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:53 am

RCory wrote:awww... it's a Unicornation Hug-Fest!

with tunces the flying cat

jgest · Post by **jgest** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:04 am

Shooshie wrote:
jgest wrote:frodo-

you always have helpful, humble and constructive posts. I'm impressed, thanks for sharring your knowledge
I agree! Frodo's an inspiration. Notice how he NEVER gives the impression that he knows more than you, or that "you should already know that," or that any question is a waste of his time. As T.S. Eliot said:

The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
is the wisdom of humility. Humility is endless.

Frodo's got the wisdom!
Here's to you, Frodo!

Shooshie

(and thanks for all the help)

I find audio engineering is a perfect oppoertunity to work on my "ego", as it is natural to want to flex one's mental, technical and artistic savvy......at the expense of those who are less experienced.
A great producer makes great music by building up those around them via constructive positive feedback.............I know I perform much better (musically speaking

) when i feel like an equal, or at least valued.

jgest · Post by **jgest** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:08 am

Shixapatrol wrote:I run DP 3 in OS 9 on a Mac 733 G4. I'm looking for the best way to get a huge library of sounds. My dilema is that I would preferably like to have somthing like Giga sounds or Sample Tank...but I don't know if this current software is compatible with my older version of DP3 and OS 9. If it isn't...I will either have to upgrade my DP and OS, (anyone know the rough price of that option) or buy a hardware synth module. I've been looking at the Roland Fantom XR, which I could pick

..........

What about reason 2.5 i think it is still os 9 compatible? also if your thinking hardware, an access virus goes a long way and you can get a version a/b for $400-700 depending on the model etc.....
Just my opinion.

dosuna11 · Post by **dosuna11** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:34 am

I still have an OS 9 machine and run SampleTank. It's been rock solid and has benefits that are great. I have kept all my computers from Atari on. Hybrid Arts has features DP still doesn't have for MIDI. On your G4 you can still run Pro Tools Free with Dverb and SampleTank. Great for solo projects. I used a MIDI Man DUO for my Preamp. Worked for PTF and DP3. SampleTank is a bit of a CPU hog but my 733MHz G4 was fine. It also ran on my G3. There wasn't a good Rhodes sound though. I solved that with Reason. With REwire DP3, SampleTank, and Reason all spoke to each other on my G4. I made the transisition to G5 for ALtiverb, Ivory, pitch automation and latency compensation. I still use my Atari as a master with MTC when I need to use some of those features or get at an old project to update it.

Shixapatrol · Post by **Shixapatrol** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:42 am

First...Thanx for all the input everyone, I appreciate it.

So from what I gather, SampleTankXL will run on my system, so thats an option. I also liked the idea of using a separate computer for the virtual instruments. (Ive been thinking of picking up a new laptop anyway) My question then is...how does the Motu computer control the VST computer. Is it just through 2 MIDI boxes, and whats a good CPU speed to use as a dedicated VST player?? Along that same line....lets say I was using my G4 733 (750 ram) as the dedicated VST player....does anyone know approximately how many V instruments could be playing at one time without CPU taxing and latency issues compared to a newer computer??

Thanks. Jay

pencilina · Post by **pencilina** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:43 am

I really can't recomend using a seperate PC for VSTs alongside your DP3 system enough. You can configure a PC to be the ultimate synth/sampler with free plugs for way cheap. We get so much marketing garbage constantlly beamed at us about the latest greatist cookie cutter stuff that's stupid expensive and sometimes not very flexible. If I hadn't needed to do a 5.1 album I'd still have my g4. You'll really have the best of both worlds tons of amazing free VST for the pc and good old solid DP3. Some people like midioverlan which you can use ethernet to send MIDI between machines. I prefer hardware as it always seems to work and is roughly the same price. A 2x2 midisport on each pc hooked up to my mac's MIDI express has been rock solid for me. As far as audio goes I go analog through my console back into my mac or through amps or whatever. You could also go the optical route but I thik analog is way more flexible and I like what happens thorugh the signal path. The M audio delta stuff is cheap and sounts great. My ageing PCs are 2.4 ghz P4s. You could put one together for a few hundred bux these days. I can run a lot of VIs. Its hard to say how many because different instruments have different loads. I haven't felt hindered at all. I even found a free impulse verb! The biggest problem is actually having maybe too many options as far as free softsynths and fxs go. There are hundreds mayber thousands of them - and quite few free samplers. There's a free akai S series emulator that can read akai cds and there's the whole world of soundfonts which tend to lend themselves to gritty electronica. You can also ainvest in kontakt or a streaming softsampler. The only thing that might suck for you is learning and tweaking windows. Also make sure you install a firewall and virus protection if you go online with a PC - which you probably will do to grab softsynths (go to kvrvst.com). If you're feeling super cheap, nerdy and technomasochistic you might be able to get a Linux box going for even less dough (check out the agnula distro) but thats work to get going. Also cheap KVM switches tend to suck so I'd recommend finding an old monitor and using an additional PS2 kybd and mouse or if you have a two monitor setup on you mac get a VGA switch for the second monitor and use that for the pc when needed.

Good luck.

MOTUnation.com

Soft synths for DP 3??

Soft synths for DP 3??

Re: Soft synths for DP 3??

Lots of ideas