ProjectSAM Brass on Mach Five

musikmik · Post by **musikmik** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:54 am

Has anyone here used ProjectSAM Brass with Mach Five? Does it import easily? How is the library? The demos sound great, but are the sounds good? Are they substantially better than Quantum Leap Brass? Thanks for any thoughts!

homebilly · Post by **homebilly** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:06 am

the bass trombone ROCKS!

as i play trumpet, trombone and french horn i use the SAM stuff for temp only, but it is good.

the Dan Dean stuff is good too

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:21 pm

homebilly:

Tell us more about SAM. There was another thread on sample libraries and I'd asked about SAM there, but got no response. The demos are impressive.

homebilly · Post by **homebilly** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:43 pm

as i am super critical about brass samples none of them make me 100% happy but for mocking up my stuff SAM has worked out well as well as the Dan Dean stuff. I use the SAM bass trombone in my music because i don't have a bass bone so i play the part up an octave then de-tune it in DP then double it with the SAM bass bone mixed in low. For film style brass hits the horns and bones sound really good. they mask well. i am still very particular about the longer lines and as a result i ended up just buying a french horn and hire another player to play 1st - 3rd and i play the 2nd and 4th parts. i use the bones as temp then replace them later with me on bone.

it just seemed to take too long programming something that never satisfied me anyway.
but i think that the SAM stuff has a good sound and good bite as well. it seems to work well with my EVI too.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:02 pm

Thanks, HB. That's good to hear, especially coming from a brass player.

EVI, huh? Hmmmm.... this is the third mention of such a thing today. I'm starting to pay attention (which is cheaper than paying cash!).

homebilly · Post by **homebilly** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:21 am

actually the EVI plays a big part in when i record my woodwind samples.
it allows me to play the flute, oboe, clarinet and basson with real breath control. this really helps with the releases as i am able to taper them to get a realistic sound. it does put a lot of MIDI data on the tracks though.
but the truth is nothing beats the real deal. that's why i bought the bone and french horn. i even decided to get a C trumpet after playing trumpet for almost 30 years. that has been fun to. i have been playing the EVI for about 18 years. check out Appocolypse Now you can hear Nyle Steiner (the inventor) playing EVI all over that soundtrack.

as a side note. the one thing that i don't like about the SAM French Horns is that the SOLO horn was recorded with vibrato. As I use the solo horn 4 times to make a section this doesn't work for me. In the states French Horn doesn't play with vibrato.

ron

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:13 pm

Vibrato on the solo horn is just one technique which may have its place. What I like about VSL-VI is that it's got options that can be interchanged or even entered with filters-- vib to non vib and back again. The cross fades are seemless and well done.

But for sections, stacking the same sample is just not a good idea due to wave cancellation. Certainly, you know this, but I'm not sure how you are getting around it with your sample set. Sometimes I'll use a flagship solo sample and draw from other libraries to fatten up the sound with layers.

Do you have any mp3's of some of your hybrid brass work? I'd be curious just to hear a snippet...

homebilly · Post by **homebilly** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:24 pm

i end up replaying it with my french horn. that's the only quick way for
me to resolve the problem. i hate programming a brass sample to do something that takes me no time at all to do with a real instrument. this is where i think that samples are still just a mock up tool. there is nothing
like the real deal

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:51 pm

homebilly wrote:i end up replaying it with my french horn. that's the only quick way for
me to resolve the problem. i hate programming a brass sample to do something that takes me no time at all to do with a real instrument. this is where i think that samples are still just a mock up tool. there is nothing
like the real deal

Can I get an AMEN?

I played trumpet and tuba years ago, but I've played the piano since age 4. I frustrate the heck out of some of my more technically inclined clients by actually playing repeated choruses all the way through instead of copying and pasting. It is faster and the results are better.

Now, you've got me even more curious:

How are you setup for recording on an open mic? Is your computer isolated? In the same room? Do you have remote or wireless capabilities for starting/stopping recording? Do you have an assistant for this kind of thing?

I've been trying to sort out the best way to record vocals myself. I'm just about setup, except that I need to set up another computer monitor for the booth. I've already got twin monitors running off the AGP, and Apple has been a little stingy on PCI slots. Adding another card may not be an option, but there are some three-output card options out there for PC-- am looking into triple monitor cards for the G5...

homebilly · Post by **homebilly** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:57 pm

man you'd laff if you ewver saw me at it.
i live in an apartment and have my rig in the living room.

i just set up a mic (AKG 414) and go. i use an MOTU 828 mkII
and record right into DP but i wear head phones when
i track.

i found that after working as a re-recording mixer
in ALL kinds of funky joints that i could go the
guerilla LO-Fi route. BUT i have gotten GREAT results!
i realized that i couldn't wait around to have enough $$$ to
build the perfect studio and that my apt. would have to do.
I try to record during the week during the day when the
neighbors are at work and then get to it. it's not all that LO-Fi either.

it dawned on me that alot could get done in an apartment
if i applied myself.

as i practice softly anyway and the neighbors are cool and i don't abuse
it, all goes well. i just invite them to my screenings and they are happy and proud:) and i can get my gigs done.

Oh and I quantize nothing. i play it over and over and over until i get it right. you are absolutely right to play from left to right without copying and pasting. now we are talking music.

homebilly wrote:
i end up replaying it with my french horn. that's the only quick way for
me to resolve the problem. i hate programming a brass sample to do something that takes me no time at all to do with a real instrument. this is where i think that samples are still just a mock up tool. there is nothing
like the real deal

Can I get an AMEN?

I played trumpet and tuba years ago, but I've played the piano since age 4. I frustrate the heck out of some of my more technically inclined clients by actually playing repeated choruses all the way through instead of copying and pasting. It is faster and the results are better.

Now, you've got me even more curious:

How are you setup for recording on an open mic? Is your computer isolated? In the same room? Do you have remote or wireless capabilities for starting/stopping recording? Do you have an assistant for this kind of thing?

{{I've been trying to sort out the best way to record vocals myself. I'm just about setup, except that I need to set up another computer monitor for the booth. I've already got twin monitors running off the AGP, and Apple has been a little stingy on PCI slots. Adding another card may not be an option, but there are some three-output card options out there for PC-- am looking into triple monitor cards for the G5...}}

oh you can get an IOGEAR VGA splitter if you are running VGA monitors. i have one in my post studio for the client monitor. that VGA feed actually goes to a VGA to S-video converter then to the TV but it is essentially just a slpitter to a TV. I love the IOGEAR stuff. i also have an IOGEAR DVI switcher at home so that i can switch my 2nd monitor on my G4 DP rig and use it as the main monitor on my G5 Logi/VSL rig. since i only need it to load up logic i don't need to look at it after and i can use the monitor for Quicktime Picture. I am a big fan of QT pix without all of that silly DV latency ridden hardware.

ron

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:02 pm

Man-- with a VGA splitter and a wireless mouse/keyboard (or just some longer USB cables), I'd be all set.

Thanks for the tips.

homebilly · Post by **homebilly** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:23 pm

the IOGEAR VGA switcher

http://www.iogear.com/main.php?loc=product&Item=GVS92

i use the apple bluetooth keyboard but hate all bluetooth mice
so it's a wired mightymouse for me

good luck

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:14 pm

...and a beautiful thing it is.

Thanks again, HB!

homebilly · Post by **homebilly** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:59 am

back to the original M5 question.
SAM translates fairly well but M5 doesn't
bring the keyswitches over.

the basic patches sound really good
and as i re checked yesterday, the
shorter stuff sounds better than the longer stuff
to me. i wouldn't hesitate leaving the
stacc and short stuff in if i didn't have the
time to replace them.

unfortunatley M5II isn't out yet as i have
heard that the translations will be better.
it does translate well into EXS24II though.
but i WAY prefer M5.

musikmik · Post by **musikmik** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:35 am

Hey, thanks for checking out the Brass translation into Mach Five! Couple of quick questions. Since I will be running Mach Five in DP, will doing MIDI sequences with the sounds in Mach Five in any way threaten to crash the system, and should there be any latency issues? (Small orchestration, mostly brass, bass, percussion, and a couple of reeds, so not a ton of polyphony.)

Second, I see you use True Strike. I am needing to do all of my auxillary percussion on keyboard as well, and was considering getting TS to do it. How are timpani and toms in True Strike? I especially need huge, ff timpani hits and rolls which crescendo. Thanks!