Convinced Pitch automation unreliable in real time

[toodamnhip]

Being quite addicted to the new DP real time pitch automation, I still have certian reservations about it..but it is so damn convenient..isn;t it?..

It could surely SOUND better, it leaves artifacts way too easy compared to Antares and Melodine...

But it is great for convenience when used in a full mix..so I use it...

But I have found one major problem that I wanted to chime in on to see if the rest of you have notice this...

It just plains fails to correct pitch at times!

The more robust your file and processor load, the more this problem occurs..

Get a note right, then, later, it goes by..and it;s pitchy again..then, play it again and it is NOT pitchy..

It's like the real time pitching goes on and off depending on processor load.

Thus, one of the main conveniences , that being real time ability to see your pitch corrections and change your mind later, becomes compromised, as you have to merge the soundbites for RELIABLE , CONSISTENT pitch correction...

I still keep things real time until the last possible moment so that I may make changes, but I have found the need to merge ALL corrected files when time to lay down the mix for maximum consistency in correction function.

Anyone else noticed the pitching to be a bit flakey?

David

[kurtl]

I used to. But when I upgraded to 10.4.4 thru 10.4.6 it seems to have gotten stable for me G5 1.8 single, DP 4.6.1. I use it all the time in real time. Many tracks of vocals. Bounce to disc works great too. I've also upgraded to DP 5.0 and I'm trying it out on certain old projects before I jump ship on 4.6.1. I use DP full time to earn a living so I'm carefull.

[toodamnhip]

I used to. But when I upgraded to 10.4.4 thru 10.4.6 it seems to have gotten stable for me G5 1.8 single, DP 4.6.1. I use it all the time in real time. Many tracks of vocals. Bounce to disc works great too. I've also upgraded to DP 5.0 and I'm trying it out on certain old projects before I jump ship on 4.6.1. I use DP full time to earn a living so I'm carefull.

Yes..me too..that's why I haven't upgraded yet..

I can't afford MORE bugs...

I think that for any two users to truly compare results in many areas, including pitch automation, they'd have to have similar sets of plugs or at least a similarly stressed out computer...

It seems that my long held argueent of DP always being a victim of the OS and mac computers strain , and that that being the reason why DP can't compete with Pro Tools for stability..still applies...
Stress the computer, and things get flakey..period...

[Shooshie]

Well, here's what the database says so far, but bear in mind that I have 22 people (about half) with incomplete information at this point. (BTW, David, you should do the two questionnaires!)

••• Of the five people who have so far reported pitch problems, two are using 10.4.4, and the other three are in 10.3.9.
••• NONE of them is reporting a MOTU PCI driver. Could proper pitch automation be linked to that? Could be just a coincidence at this point. We'll have to revisit this when there's more data entered.
I don't see any other obvious relationships.

Shooshie

[toodamnhip]

Well, here's what the database says so far, but bear in mind that I have 22 people (about half) with incomplete information at this point. (BTW, David, you should do the two questionnaires!)

••• Of the five people who have so far reported pitch problems, two are using 10.4.4, and the other three are in 10.3.9.
••• NONE of them is reporting a MOTU PCI driver. Could proper pitch automation be linked to that? Could be just a coincidence at this point. We'll have to revisit this when there's more data entered.
I don't see any other obvious relationships.

Shooshie

I have been wanting to do the questionairre..I am finsihing a record this weekend, and alreay blowing huge amounts of time on a certain brunette with amazing blue eyes..thus..time has been at a premium...
But if I wanna be the consumate complainer..lol..I do need to anti up and fill out your forms..I will..I promise...

Hey..they should change your name to NUMBER 1.like in Star Trek..

There's admiral Magic Dave..then there's Captain James..and then you...#1

[toodamnhip]

By the way,,,
It is also quite possible that not many others hear what I hear...

I am sure we all have good ears here..but I am kind of a freak when it comes to what I hear..

I was tested once and registered into the area beyond what humans are supposed to hear...and that was at a time when I was in a full on rock band and went because I thought I had LOST hearing..lol..

Thus, what I hear as pitch glitches..are very small changes...we're talking in the rhelm of is a note "sweet" any more or not at times...
in addition to occassional notes being obvious, it is often just that it is a micro amount out,

[billf]

Hey..they should change your name to NUMBER 1.

You are #6 (points awarded if you get the reference).

[toodamnhip]

Hey..they should change your name to NUMBER 1.

You are #6 (points awarded if you get the reference).

Silly, mindless brunette lover that changes the oil on starship enterprise?

[billf]

Hey..they should change your name to NUMBER 1.

You are #6 (points awarded if you get the reference).

Silly, mindless brunette lover that changes the oil on starship enterprise?

Good answer, but incorrect. Try again.

Hint: different series.

[stephentayler]

I am not a number.................

be seeing you!!

Stephen

[billf]

I am not a number.................

be seeing you!!

Stephen

Wow, did you see the mock up for the DP6 Logo?

[stephentayler]

Awesome, Bill!!!

Watch out for Rover!!!

Stephen

[wvandyck]

I enjoyed that!

Yes, the Prisoner was a really cool program.
Deep content for a "yute"

[pcm]

Being quite addicted to the new DP real time pitch automation, I still have certian reservations about it..but it is so damn convenient..isn;t it?..

It could surely SOUND better, it leaves artifacts way too easy compared to Antares and Melodine...

But it is great for convenience when used in a full mix..so I use it...

But I have found one major problem that I wanted to chime in on to see if the rest of you have notice this...

It just plains fails to correct pitch at times!

The more robust your file and processor load, the more this problem occurs..

Get a note right, then, later, it goes by..and it;s pitchy again..then, play it again and it is NOT pitchy..

It's like the real time pitching goes on and off depending on processor load.

Thus, one of the main conveniences , that being real time ability to see your pitch corrections and change your mind later, becomes compromised, as you have to merge the soundbites for RELIABLE , CONSISTENT pitch correction...

I still keep things real time until the last possible moment so that I may make changes, but I have found the need to merge ALL corrected files when time to lay down the mix for maximum consistency in correction function.

Anyone else noticed the pitching to be a bit flakey?

David

I'm really surprised to hear all this. I find DP pitch correction to be state of the art. I used Autotune in graphical mode for years, and regard myself as an expert in it. I haven't used graphical mode since the day I first used DP pitch automation. I have zero artifacts, and the control over pitch in general and vibrato in particular is light years ahead of Autotune. I would suggest it's your technique. You have to really develop the skill to do this really right, but once you do, the program will actually let you do it, and let you get away with it too. And the ability to fix wayward vibrato manually is fantastic. Autotune would just massacre that sort of thing. I still use AT for non-crital stuff in AUTO mode, which of course doesn't always work well enough, but when it does, it's earned it's keep.

Truth be told, I more or less switched to PTHD many months ago, and now only use DP to work on old projects, AND to pitch correct PT projects. Really. You think Autotune is bad in DP? You can't believe what a horror show it is in Pro Tools. For openers, AT in PT doesn't receive timing information from the application, so there's no synchronization. So you are forced to do a phrase at a time, and then print as you go. Plus, you can't see the playback wiper running in the AT window, so you have no "realtime" clue what is going on in the AT window. And on top of all that, are the barely acceptable results. Even with flying the track into DP, I can do the same vocal in a fraction of the time, and it comes out way better.

For what it's worth, when I work I hear no artifacts (unless I have made a move which simply doesn't work well). No audio degradation. No timing issues (AT has some noticeable and INCONSISTENT delays happening). And once I make the moves, they do not change. Not sure why you are having this problem...

How cool that a sequencer company beat Antares at their own game?

[toodamnhip]

Being quite addicted to the new DP real time pitch automation, I still have certian reservations about it..but it is so damn convenient..isn;t it?..

It could surely SOUND better, it leaves artifacts way too easy compared to Antares and Melodine...

But it is great for convenience when used in a full mix..so I use it...

But I have found one major problem that I wanted to chime in on to see if the rest of you have notice this...

It just plains fails to correct pitch at times!

The more robust your file and processor load, the more this problem occurs..

Get a note right, then, later, it goes by..and it;s pitchy again..then, play it again and it is NOT pitchy..

It's like the real time pitching goes on and off depending on processor load.

Thus, one of the main conveniences , that being real time ability to see your pitch corrections and change your mind later, becomes compromised, as you have to merge the soundbites for RELIABLE , CONSISTENT pitch correction...

I still keep things real time until the last possible moment so that I may make changes, but I have found the need to merge ALL corrected files when time to lay down the mix for maximum consistency in correction function.

Anyone else noticed the pitching to be a bit flakey?

David

I'm really surprised to hear all this. I find DP pitch correction to be state of the art. I used Autotune in graphical mode for years, and regard myself as an expert in it. I haven't used graphical mode since the day I first used DP pitch automation. I have zero artifacts, and the control over pitch in general and vibrato in particular is light years ahead of Autotune. I would suggest it's your technique. You have to really develop the skill to do this really right, but once you do, the program will actually let you do it, and let you get away with it too. And the ability to fix wayward vibrato manually is fantastic. Autotune would just massacre that sort of thing. I still use AT for non-crital stuff in AUTO mode, which of course doesn't always work well enough, but when it does, it's earned it's keep.

Truth be told, I more or less switched to PTHD many months ago, and now only use DP to work on old projects, AND to pitch correct PT projects. Really. You think Autotune is bad in DP? You can't believe what a horror show it is in Pro Tools. For openers, AT in PT doesn't receive timing information from the application, so there's no synchronization. So you are forced to do a phrase at a time, and then print as you go. Plus, you can't see the playback wiper running in the AT window, so you have no "realtime" clue what is going on in the AT window. And on top of all that, are the barely acceptable results. Even with flying the track into DP, I can do the same vocal in a fraction of the time, and it comes out way better.

For what it's worth, when I work I hear no artifacts (unless I have made a move which simply doesn't work well). No audio degradation. No timing issues (AT has some noticeable and INCONSISTENT delays happening). And once I make the moves, they do not change. Not sure why you are having this problem...

How cool that a sequencer company beat Antares at their own game?

I do have also have pro tools HD-4 at my other studio..and have used Antares on many an album, and done the same in DP...

the problem I refer to in hee by the way, is native, without pro tools..

My technique is really really good....

I have developed tons of highly precise techniques in DP's tune such a micro zooming the smallest phrase segments without touching the rest..kepping the vibrato or changing the vibrato, tuning only the tops of vobratos...etc..

I am known for being able to tune vocs without interfering with the performance in any way whatsoever...
I assure you..I am really reall y really skilled...

All of what I said about DP stands...

If you make more than a minor move and even on some minor moves, the audio degrades... a little or a lot..and sometimes not at all, depending on the material...I have a great comp, fully tuned up...G5 2.5 etc..

I cannot convince you how skilled I am but please, no more about my technique..

If you hear no artifacts..I could now doubt your ears if I wanted to return the favor..lol..
But let's just be happy for you that you don;t have any and consider you don;t have artifacts and I do...

Dave