Collecting Data In the Interest of Solving Problems

Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Thu May 11, 2006 3:36 pm

Hello Guys ,
Can you tell me how you are planning to publish the results ....
Aramis

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu May 11, 2006 3:50 pm

I will post the Excel spreadsheet for all to use as they wish under the stipulation that if anyone adds to it, they send the updated copy back to me to repost.

For those who don't have Excel, we'll come up with a consensus of what information they wish to see, and I'll print a PDF of those fields and post it along with the Excel file.

Once the information has been completed, I'll send this also to MOTU after I call them and alert a couple of people up at the top that it's coming.

Shooshie

kapono · Post by **kapono** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:28 pm

Shooshie Wrote: "As my Hawaiian GF of long ago taught me to say: mahalo nui loa. I hope that means what I think it means!"

Yeah..... Your GF got it right... It means something like a BIG(Nui) LONG(loa) THANK YOU(Mahalo)!!![/quote]

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu May 11, 2006 6:55 pm

kapono wrote:
Shooshie Wrote: "As my Hawaiian GF of long ago taught me to say: mahalo nui loa. I hope that means what I think it means!"
Yeah..... Your GF got it right... It means something like a BIG(Nui) LONG(loa) THANK YOU(Mahalo)!!!

[/quote]

Haha... That is so funny on ...er... a number of levels. She was an exceptional lady who won all the hula contests she entered, and I can think of a huge pair of reasons why she always won. So nui loa Mahalo was very appropriate under the circumstances. I think I'll shut up now!

Shooshie

tripit@earthlink.net · Fri May 12, 2006 12:27 am

I think MOTU needs to utilize more beta testers. Seriously. I don't know how many beta testers they use, but I'm thinking it's probably not nearly enough if half of the people in this fourm are having to do the work after the release.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:57 am

tripit@earthlink.net wrote:I don't know how many beta testers they use, but I'm thinking it's probably not nearly enough if half of the people in this fourm are having to do the work after the release.

Who's having to do the work after the release?

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:19 am

Well, nobody HAS to do it. But I'd sure like to see things working properly on DP. If they don't get that MIDI driver fixed (and at this point they do not seem aware that there is a problem), DP is going to start losing users or getting a reputation for being unstable, and I'd like to change that. It was always the most stable DAW on the planet until recently, and if MOTU isn't going to get to the bottom of it, then it's up to us to do it for them. I'd rather not have to do this, but I'd rather do it than see things degenerate as more and more people report instability, stuck notes, and so forth.

Tripit has a point. This is seriously hard work, and MOTU should be doing it. If I didn't really want to get to the bottom of some things, I'd have given up on this after the first all-nighter. I can see how much trouble it is for anyone to collect data like this. No two people post exactly the same data in the same way, so it's very inconsistent. I have to write a lot of PMs, emails, or just search the post in the threads to find the information I need to make everyone's records complete. For instance, when someone says "I use the latest drivers," that can mean any of several versions. We often don't really know what versions of drivers we have running in that System folder!

What I'm hoping is to get this database working well enough (translate: enough complete information) that we can sort on a number of different problems and see if any of our parameters line up in patterns. I'm definitely seeing such a pattern in the MIDI driver. It's without question at this point that Motu MIDI Driver.kext version 1.3.2 is involved in many people's stuck notes, while 1.3.1 is almost always present when someone says they have a stable system.

So, I am hoping that MOTU will take my database as a starting point and begin asking questions when they get calls, and/or submit their own questionnaire, or just use the information here and get a little more involved with us, because what we're presenting here is at least valuable statistical data which could lead to identifying certain problems.

at least.... so I hope.

Shooshie

bassmurderer · Post by **bassmurderer** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:29 am

Sooshie..Would it not be easier to create a form asking all the right questions with a space for the answers. You could then PM it to everyone...?

Better still.. get an administrator to create the form online (this is 2006)
It could be a sticky. Alot more users would fill it out meaning better data.

I think its a great idea Sooshie.
Just let a computer do the work. Its what there for.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:24 am

bassmurderer wrote:Sooshie..Would it not be easier to create a form asking all the right questions with a space for the answers. You could then PM it to everyone...?

Better still.. get an administrator to create the form online (this is 2006)
It could be a sticky. Alot more users would fill it out meaning better data.

I think its a great idea Sooshie.
Just let a computer do the work. Its what there for.

Over time, that may be something we could develop together, all of us. This started out as a specific little project with a specific goal, and then I realized that we could learn so much more with a little bit more information. So, it just kind of evolved. If I had started out with more planning, maybe it would have been as you described. I'm not the best to do this, I must admit! Still, it's nice to have something whereas a few days ago we had nothing in the line of factual data that gave us a clue as to what is going on. I'm grateful that everyone has put up with me so far, and that so many have contributed. I think that shows that we ALL really want the same thing: to see DP cleaned up so that it is 100% reliable.

Shooshie

kinnylandrum · Post by **kinnylandrum** » Fri May 12, 2006 7:10 am

Here's my info as you requested:
Hardware:
G5 Quad w/ 2.5 gig RAM
PCIe 424 card (the source of my woes)
2408 mark 1 (2 of them, although only one is connected now)
MIDI Express XT
Software:
Motu MIDI Driver 1.3.2
Motupciaudio.kext 1.0.9
MOTUfirewireAudio.kext 1.0.9
Clockworks 1.5.1
MOTU PCI Audiot Setup 1.31
MOTU CueMix Console 1.4
System 10.4.6
Apps:
DP5
NI Komplete 3 (Kontakt 2.1, etc)
DrumCore
Finale 2006d
Sibelius 4.1
Jam 6.0.3
Peak Pro 5.02

Is this enough? As far as problem, my main problem, as I have documented here, is the sometimes "amnesia" of my computer forgetting there is PCIe card installed, which requires restart. Other than that, since I'm as of now only using DP5 with this new computer, I have no other major problems (MIDI stuck notes once in a year or so)
Kinny Landrum

tripit@earthlink.net · Fri May 12, 2006 9:41 am

chrispick wrote:
tripit@earthlink.net wrote:I don't know how many beta testers they use, but I'm thinking it's probably not nearly enough if half of the people in this fourm are having to do the work after the release.
Who's having to do the work after the release?

Are you kidding?
Why release it with so many bugs? Surely, many of these or at least some of the bugs would have been caught with a bigger/better beta pool. For one example, it's pretty obvious that the QT wait for note issue was a simple thing to catch, that is, if anybody in the beta pool actually tried to stream picture with DP5 and use wait for note. I don't know if they did, but I'm thinking they probably didn't because I caught that one in about the first 30 seconds of using DP5. And as for have, sure at the end of the day, I suppose I don't have to use DP5, or have to try and figure out a solution, but I've been waiting since AES for DP5 because my entire PT rig can't migrate to PT7 until DP5 arrived. I depend on DP for part of my tools to make a living. I depend on MOTU to keep up with the other software tools that are intragrated with DP in my rig, so that I can make a living. I deliever my work in timely and professional manner. I like having the same, even though in the world of software it's not always possible. Bottom line, is that I feel like a beta tester for DP5.

jjas7 · Post by **jjas7** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 pm

MIDI Driver 1.3.2
FW 1.4.1
PCI 1.0.9

DP4.61
2408 first version
24 io
HD192
Roland XV88 Controller
2 gigastudio (LIGHTPIPE OP)
Altiverb
Guitar Rig
Reason
Absynth
Access Virus
Emulator 6400
MIDIOVERLAN
Peak 5
G5 2.7 gHz 4 gigs of RAM

OSX 10.4.6

I even installed another USB card in my G5 because I heard that stops sticking notes - didn't work.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sat May 13, 2006 1:02 am

OT--

Shooshie-- have you thought of asking James to sticky this thread?

Matcher · Post by **Matcher** » Sat May 13, 2006 2:55 am

tripit@earthlink.net wrote:
chrispick wrote:
tripit@earthlink.net wrote:I don't know how many beta testers they use, but I'm thinking it's probably not nearly enough if half of the people in this fourm are having to do the work after the release.
Who's having to do the work after the release?
Are you kidding?
Why release it with so many bugs? Surely, many of these or at least some of the bugs would have been caught with a bigger/better beta pool. For one example, it's pretty obvious that the QT wait for note issue was a simple thing to catch, that is, if anybody in the beta pool actually tried to stream picture with DP5 and use wait for note. I don't know if they did, but I'm thinking they probably didn't because I caught that one in about the first 30 seconds of using DP5. And as for have, sure at the end of the day, I suppose I don't have to use DP5, or have to try and figure out a solution, but I've been waiting since AES for DP5 because my entire PT rig can't migrate to PT7 until DP5 arrived. I depend on DP for part of my tools to make a living. I depend on MOTU to keep up with the other software tools that are intragrated with DP in my rig, so that I can make a living. I deliever my work in timely and professional manner. I like having the same, even though in the world of software it's not always possible. Bottom line, is that I feel like a beta tester for DP5.

Yep, I feel the same way. Even the manuals haven't been properly checked. The worst situation was with 4.5 getting started manual that had a tutorial in which you were supposed to use a function that doesn't exist. I mailed motu about that but never got an answer. Not professional, not nice.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat May 13, 2006 2:56 am

Frodo wrote: OT--

Shooshie-- have you thought of asking James to sticky this thread?

Oh, let's just revive it now and then. Pretty soon the whole first page is going to be all stickies, and people are going to get tired of it. What do you think? I've got it bookmarked. I'll pull it back up when there's any activity to speak of.

I'm going to finish putting the last of the data posted so far into the Excel spreadsheet, and then I'm going to have to call it quits for a few days while I work. But I'll be tinkering with it now and then to see if there is anything we can learn from it, and to get the format cleaned up where others can make sense of it. Then I'll post a link to the final database.

I can tell everyone this so far: MIDI driver 1.3.2, when used with a MOTU MIDI Interface, is almost always associated with stuck notes. To stop the stuck notes, downgrade to MIDI driver 1.3.1. I don't know if this driver works with dual-core/quad-core Macs (but it might), and I know for sure that it doesn't work with Intel Macs.

If anyone wants to try getting rid of their stuck notes with driver 1.3.1, click the link below, which is the MOTU installer I used, posted to my dotMac site:

MOTU OSX PCI Driver version 1.0.8.sit
(take precautions not to lose any files! I cannot guarantee this; it's just the installer I downloaded from MOTU's site, but there must be some reason why they removed it from their downloads page. Still, the majority of users are using this version.)

Shooshie

MOTUnation.com

Collecting Data In the Interest of Solving Problems

My Setup