AMD x2 w/ nVidia Chipset/Nuendo3.02/896HD

[lovepig]

Any known problems with this set-up? I see that there are issues w/ this CPU/chipset combo and UAD-1, which I heard was that the VIA chipsets weren't compatible and then heard that they were after 1999. Everyone has an opinion, none of them are the same.

Anyway, I haven't heard anything negative in regards to MOTU but would like to confirm that before purchase.

Thanks,

db

AMD 64 Athlon x2 4200+
Asus A8N-SLi ready
2 GB DDR 400 SDRAM
2 x 250 Sata HDD

[john jeffers]

Anyway, I haven't heard anything negative in regards to MOTU

You obviously haven't been here very long. Lots of bad things are constantly said about MOTU. Let me see if I can sum up:

- MOTU Firewire on Windows is touchy at best. It wants certain FW chipsets and doesn't like Service Pack 2. I had to reinstall WinXP and only patch up to SP1 to get things working.

- MOTU is basically a Mac-based company, and Windows is regarded as an afterthought.

- MOTU support is bitched about frequently for lack of responsiveness.

- MOTU doesn't make user manuals available for download (LAME!!!), so if you buy a product used w/no manual, you are S.O.L.

Having said all that, I have two 896HD's working together on a WinXP computer, but not without a lot of initial hassle. And I know my way around Windows *very* well--it's my job. There's no way I'd recommend MOTU to anyone using Windows until MOTU gets their •••• together with regard to support.

[lovepig]

Well then....actually what I meant was Motu and AMD together but I guess it's a good thing I posted as I wouldn't have known that it would be such a hassle with Motu/Win period.

I'm pretty new to the CPU DAW game, so perhaps you have a suggestion for me as to which direction I should go with my CPU set-up towards an interface, preferrably with 8 pre's and onboard DSP, which likely means going with RME or the like...

[arth]

I can't say with the 896HD, but the smaller and newer UltraLite works just great with a dual-core AMD (Opteron 175, similar to Athlon 64 X2 4400+) here. There's no problems with dual-core at all, but then again, I'd expect MOTU drivers to work well with multithreading, since the Mac drivers always have supported that, so they know what to do.

More important here is probably what kind of FW controller you have. My motherboard (DFI) has a VIA OHCI 1394B type controller, which works just fine, with the Windows XP2 FireWire patch.

You do get less support for Windows than Mac with MOTU. E.g. the bundled software is Mac only. That doesn't mean that the devices don't work. I find the UltraLite to be excellent, coming from M-Audio before this.

Regards,
--
*Art

[lovepig]

I heard that the VIA chipset had problems. But then I read that issues with the UAD-1 that I mentioned earlier worked better with the VIA than with nVidia.

Honestly, my head is spinning from all of the back and forth information about what does and doesn't work....

[arth]

It surely is enough to make your head spinning, with VIA not only making motherboard chipsets, but also 1394 (FireWire) controllers that you may find on a nVidia-based motherboard, and then there's 1394A and 1394B working differently with the XP SP2 Firewire patch (with 1394A, stick with XP SP1, cause the patch is really only for 1394B), and few motherboard producers or computer vendors telling you exactly what you get. Then there's IRQs, IRQLs, ACPI, APIC, PnP device polling, and enough other stuff to make your head completely hurt, when all you want is to get the darn things to work, consistently and reliably.

The best thing to do is often to get in writing that you can return something within a reasonable time period (14 to 30 days seems reasonable to me) if it doesn't work for you. For most of us, $500-$1500 is, at least most of the time, a substantial chunk of money. At least with hardware, you don't normally lose your work if you have to switch a part, even if the specs and capabilities of the new part are different. With software, it's much tougher to return something if you've invested days of work in it.

Regards,
--
*Art

[lovepig]

So, you're saying don't do the SP2 upgrade, unless of course I'm using FW 800 (not likely). Chances are with the nForce chips it'll be 1394A.

The rig is new and on the way to me. I bought it, got it home, then learned that the VIA chipset wouldn't be adequate, returned it the next day and they ordered me one with nVidia. Now I'm also waiting for the 896HD so hopefully they arrive at the same time and I'll learn quick what's what in terms of it working together.

I'm guessing it would be easier to take the thing back rather than switch out to an intel MoBo...? The company I've been dealing with is only selling AMD now, other than some HP and Acer rigs with all the crap attached. Gotta get credit where I got credit....

Does it matter which FW card I go with? I see suggestions in places and then other guys just write, get it for under $25, no brands. ???

Anyway, thanks for the helpful info Art,

Regards,

Dave

[john jeffers]

Does it matter which FW card I go with?

MOTU says it matters. They say to use a FW card with a Texas Instruments chipset.

http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... 305665162/

I tried it with an Adaptec card using an Agere chipset, and couldn't get the two 896's to sync. After I replaced that with a Belkin FW card w/TI chipset (and rolled back to SP1) I was able to get them working.

[lovepig]

Hey John,

I went looking at makers of FW cards with TI chipsets and while I was at the ADS site I found this link to fix 1394 issues with XP SP2. Not sure if you're aware of it but here it is....

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222

I'm checking Mac stores here for a FW card that MOTU recommends.

I'm also considering just going to an RME (Hammerfall) PCI sound card and forget about all the MOTU issues. I don't think I have the tech know-how or the patience to deal with this stuff. A good buddy runs RME and swears by it and will help me get running....we'll see. Not 100% decided yet.

Cheers from Canada,

Dave

[john jeffers]

Hey John,

I went looking at makers of FW cards with TI chipsets and while I was at the ADS site I found this link to fix 1394 issues with XP SP2. Not sure if you're aware of it but here it is....

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222

Yes, I do know about that patch. It didn't fix the problem for me. MOTU specifically advises against using SP2 here:

http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... 9344567818

Thanks for posting it, though. It's cool of you to offer a suggestion. I've never used the RME stuff, but the Fireface 800 sure does look cool. Not as many built-in preamps as the 896, which is kind of a drag. Sure, you could buy a 1U 8-ch preamp like a DigiMax to front-end the Fireface in the same amount of rack spaces as an 896. A lot more money, though! Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[arth]

MOTU specifically advises against using SP2 here:

http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... 9344567818

MOTU also specifically states "at this time (October 13, 2004)".

The MS patch was released after that. However, the patch also states (well hidden within the details) that the patch is intended for 1394B controllers, and I would not recommend installing it if you have an older 1394A controller chip. Having a 1394B chip but only 1394A ports is far from uncommon -- many motherboard manufacturers put a 1394B chip on the board, because that's what's being made these days, and a 1394A socket, because of compatibility with what users are likely to need (cameras, HDs, MOTUs, etc.). In that scenario, yes, you'd want the patch.

(Also, there's been some incorrect advice flying around that you should set the "SidSpeed" registry variable to 3 -- this is incorrect, and should only be done if you use a 9 pin 1394B interface to a 1394B capable device. Otherwise, if using any standard 6-pin FW plugs, leave the value at 2, which is what the patch install sets it to.)

Regards,
--
*Art

[lovepig]

I've been snooping around town about MOTU and so far, everyone I've spoken to has different set-ups and their MOTU products have worked without error from the beginning, and all with SP2 installed.

Regardless, I've taken some of your advice and picked up a Keyspan FW card w/ TI contoller chip as it'll probably be useful in the long run and I'm pretty sure about going with the 896 now.

The system I'm waiting for, which arrives today, will have XP installed with SP2, as XP is shipped with it included. Question is, can I remove SP2 from the system still?

John wrote:

Sure, you could buy a 1U 8-ch preamp like a DigiMax to front-end the Fireface in the same amount of rack spaces as an 896. A lot more money, though! Best of luck with whatever you decide.

John, although I wasn't thinking of using the fireface but rather a PCI card, this is something that is discouraging me about that route at this time. Expense! So, going in the front with a card, wouldn't I need conversion and mic-pres? Like an Octapre, or Octane? And then on the backside I assume that I would need some sort of D/A device and then route to monitoring, via analog mixer or the like?

Anyway fellas, I appreciate your advice and tips. Thanks.

Dave

[Smokehouse]

I know that some folks have solved their problems by rolling back to SP1, but for me that sounds like a really lame solution. I like my OS up-to-date as much as possible, and SP1 is pretty old by now. I currently run with a clean SP2 install, 828mkII, and an ADS firewire card (TI chipset) and none of the patches and things work fine. I did turn OFF (Disable) the 1394 Network Driver, as it would wake up every once in a while and disrupt my audio stream. Nasty bit, that. Anyway, I'm happy.

MOTU is shamefully horrible in supporting its Windows-based customers. You may want to consider buying the USB version instead of the firewire version. USB 2.0 on Windows appears to be less twitchy, and unless you're recording 22 channels at 96K and 24 bits or something extreme like that then USB 2.0 should be more than enough. I had a pair of EDIROL UA1000's under windows and recorded 16 tracks of 44.1K/24 bits onto my laptop without a problem.

[lovepig]

J, A, & S:

Well I have to thank you guys for your insights about MOTU and also XP, etc.. But I have taken a sudden about face from my earlier stance about getting an 896 and I have decided to go with a Creamware Scope Project PCI card, the M-Audio Octane, a well featured 8x8 mic pre, and a Mackie Big Knob. Analog mixer, or most likely, a MIDI controller later, if at all. I don't need separate converters as it all happens on the card and at no expense to the CPU. Sweet!

The Scope card has 6 on-board DSP's and comes with an amazingly good sounding set of plug-ins, from effects, synths and sampling to modeled consoles to killer mastering tools. All at no expense to the CPU. Sweet! It can be stacked with the same version or any number of combos including a 14 DSP expansion board!! Talk about zero latency, even the Project card runs at 1.5 ms. Extremely inaudible!

I'm paying a little more than I would for the 896HD but what I get is no headaches from a system that is reputed to have no issues with any apps/MoBo's/chipsets/AMD or P4, with the exception of Pro Tools issues, which I would never use and it's over-rated anyway, and the Scope card is all around PC friendly. Also, there is a large community of users with lots of freeware. I have direct user support here in town as well.

Check it out: [url=http://www.creamware.com]

It's time for MOTU to give their head a shake and get with the real world. How many more audio PC's are there than Macs? How much cheaper is it for people to run PC's? What are the parts inside Mac's now? PC parts!

I'm not the type of person that has the patience to piss around with testy hardware and get descriminating and crappy support for $1300.00; regardless of how many people use it without fail.

Best of luck out there gentlemen!

RadioActive