DP, Sibelius and GPO on intel iMAC

[paulb]

I am interested in getting a MAC to record and write music. I currently have a pentium on windows 98 using Cakewalk Pro Audio (that i used to use in 1999) - i would like to also make movies, write music for orchestra as wellas ballads using my voice and MIDI instruments.

I am interested in putting together a new system and switching to the mac for better integration of video and music (also will use mac for graphic programs)

I would like to purchase the intel imac and use DP as a sequencer, Sibelius as a notator with photoscore for transcribing orchestra scores. I was also thinking of Garrison personal Orchestra or MOTU for sampled orchestra sounds - Will all of this work in this scenario?

PS Motu informed me that they are expecting intel support in the 3rd quarter of 2006 - Should I wait to make sure??
Thanks for your input

[dosuna11]

I would wait at least a good amount of time to let the updates debug and find out the scoop before jumping in. This is a great place for anything that rears it's head is posted and people here are good about offering up solutions. My experience with Sibelius is it is good for writing scores but poor for importing standard MIDI files. Photoscore is still a dream. I would say about 50% there. You will still have to do some serious editing. DP5 could be the cure but more likely one step closer.

[emulatorloo]

I am interested in getting a MAC to record and write music. <snip> i would like to also make movies, write music for orchestra as wellas ballads using my voice and MIDI instruments. I would like to purchase the intel imac and use DP as a sequencer, Sibelius as a notator with photoscore for transcribing orchestra scores. I was also thinking of Garrison personal Orchestra or MOTU for sampled orchestra sounds - Will all of this work in this scenario?

In theory this will all work. I would expect, though, that you would need universal binaries (i.e. compiled for intel) of all three apps, although maybe the Sibelius would run fine.

I will tell you that MOTU has been known to be late on shipping dates. They don't ship a product until it is ready. So be forwarned that they may not have DP5 ready for intel when they said they would.

(OTOH, Apple's logic product is ready to go for intel now. However, I have both DP and Logic, and I gotta tell you Logic is not very inspiring for me to work with. DP on the other hand, for me, is a great tool.)

In the meantime you could start making your movies with the iMac using the included iMovie and iDVD applications. And if you want to dabble in MIDI, the included Garageband is fun too. . .however you wont be able to transfer your Garageband MIDI files to Digital Performer (at least you cant w the current version)

My advice is to get as much ram for your machine as possible -- here are two good vendors of ram, both which offer lifetime warranties:

http://www.datamem.com
http://www.eshop.macsales.com

the second one has lots of video and pdf tutorials about how to do ram upgrades etc

As you are shopping for a machine, check out these pricetracking sites:

http://www.lowendmac.com/deals.shtml
http://www.macprices.com

A great bargain-hunters for macs site

http://dealmac.com/

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BTW -- I am betting you will be eligible for the Digital Performer competitive upgrade, which is priced thru dealers at 299.00

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MTUDPERFMAC



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[Shooshie]

I am interested in getting a MAC to record and write music. I currently have a pentium on windows 98 using Cakewalk Pro Audio (that i used to use in 1999) - i would like to also make movies, write music for orchestra as wellas ballads using my voice and MIDI instruments.

I am interested in putting together a new system and switching to the mac for better integration of video and music (also will use mac for graphic programs)

I would like to purchase the intel imac and use DP as a sequencer, Sibelius as a notator with photoscore for transcribing orchestra scores. I was also thinking of Garrison personal Orchestra or MOTU for sampled orchestra sounds - Will all of this work in this scenario?

PS Motu informed me that they are expecting intel support in the 3rd quarter of 2006 - Should I wait to make sure??
Thanks for your input

Paul,

Consider getting a Quad G5 instead. I'm not advising that as the "right thing to do," but it's what I'd do right now. First of all, DP is a great tool for composition and arranging. At least, I think so. Lots of film composers agree. It's the sort of thing you set up as you get more accustomed to it, and the more you set up, the more spontaneous it gets to work in it. In other words, the better your templates match your working style, the faster you can jump into a song while it's still in your head, rather than having to take time to get your "blank score" set up for you. Also, your window sets and keyboard shortcuts save you much time, and those have to be set up for your tastes, too. It may not feel spontaneous at first (actually, it definitely WON'T feel spontaneous at first) but as you get it set up, it's just as I said. It gets very fast, very easy, and once you're moving at that speed, DP won't slow you down. It just gets faster.

Ok, having said that as a very good rationale for staying with DP as opposed to Logic or Pro Tools, I will tell you why I think it would be a good idea to get a Quad G5 (or even a dual) and wait on the Intel boxes. I may be totally wrong, but typically it takes a release or two of "beta" versions before things finally start getting good. I expect Intel Macs to start being really good in about two years. I expect OS X to be fantastic on Intel Macs at about that time, too. And likewise, Digital Performer will go through a few releases before it really fits the Intel machines like hand-in-glove. Meanwhile, the G5s are as good as they will ever get. DP is mature on that system.

The problem, of course, is that the G5 is guaranteed to become obsolete over time. You just have to wonder how much time. I'd guess that MOTU will continue to support those machines for another three to four years, maybe more.

That's my opinion. I hope I don't lead you astray, but honestly, if I was buying a computer right now, I'd choose the G5 even if the Intel was ready, and DP ready for it.

Shooshie

[sdemott]

at my day gig (IT Supervisor in a marketing company) we buy Macs by the truckload (literally). We have a bunch of the MacIntels (iMacs & MacBooks). They're nice, but they just aren't ready for prime time. The native apps are fast, but there are hardware anomalies and software issues (especially with Rosetta - I'm convinced there's a memory leak).

We also have a bunch of both the Quad G5s and the Duals. the Quads have been more problematic. We have yet to have a Dual 2.3 exibit any flakey behavior - the Quads have been very flakey (all except one or two that seem to be fine, but that's 2 out of 25/30...not a good percentage).

if I were to suggets a system for your purposes today - Dual 2.3 G5 with as much RAM as you can afford, a 2nd internal drive & 2 displays.

Software: DP...yes! I'm a long time Pro Tools user recently converted & I must say the depth of this program is still a fascination to me. Just sitting with the (rather large) manual I always find something new that makes me go "woah...that's cool".

I am also a long time Finale user recently converted to Sibelius. I find it so much easier to score & arrange in Sibelius than Finale. Finale always seemd to get in the way of the creative process.

Just my $0.02

[pencilina]

Sounds like what you want to do is a fairly simple task for most g5s. I use DP and Sibelius on a dual 1.8 g5 with no big problems. There's always the stupid little stuff that motu needs to fix - stuck MIDI notes and I also have problems with sibelus reading some SMFs but I haven't really spend much time to fugure out its quirks because all I use it for is printing scores and parts and it is really really really good at that. The g5 eats most other tasks tasks for breakfast and after almost 2 years of use it still continues to amaze me. There's no reaon to torture youself on the bleeding edge and you can put the savings into other areas of your setup. Seeing as you're upgrading from a pentium (1?) any g5 (except maybe the buggy 1st gen 1.6) will probably rock unless you have some kind of intel fixation you can't shake. Good luck.

[qo]

I'm in agreement with everyone above. Get a dual 2.x G5 and you'll have a very nice box for the next few years. Then, sometime in 2008, buy a MacIntel. I've had zero issues (except stuck MIDI notes) with the dual 2.7.

It's a bonus that you'll spend considerably less cash on this today than I did a year ago.

[Shooshie]

It's disappointing to hear about the quads, sdemott. I was really hoping for super-power in those, and I've been considering buying one. I've always entertained the idea of buying a system, getting it tweaked to exactly the way I want it, and "retiring" with it. That is, not upgrading it ever again until I buy a new system. No software updates, no new DP, no new plugins, etc. But I doubt that I could ever maintain that kind of self-control. My fantasy was to buy a Quad G5 and do that. I guess that blows my little fantasy. It's just as well; those things are still very expensive. Better to get a dual 2.7GHz or something along those lines, I guess.

Has anyone else noticed this same flaky behavior in the quads?

Still, the duals are nice. I just want about double the power I have now--dual 1GHz G4 Quicksilver. More VIs and the ability to run AltiVerb with them in real time without having to freeze tracks every five minutes.

Also, glad to hear about Sibelius. I was thinking of asking that very question in the forum one of these days, as I need a notation app. I've been dangling without the ability to print scores (other than QuickScribe) since Mosaic went by the wayside. What a disappointment that they dropped it. MOTU was the first company to give us laserwriter notation, back in 1984; too bad they didn't stick with it. I never liked Finale, and was wondering if Sibelius was a good choice.

Shooshie

[emulatorloo]

My fantasy was to buy a Quad G5 and do that. I guess that blows my little fantasy. It's just as well; those things are still very expensive. Better to get a dual 2.7GHz or something along those lines, I guess.Shooshie

Shooshie, there seem to be some pretty good deals on dual G5s in the apple store refurb area right now; dual 1.8 for 1299.00 up through a dual 2.7 for $2149 . . .I am on a dual 1.33 g4, and have a couple of PCI cards that I want to keep, so these are real tempting to me -- I would imagine a dual 2.7 would last me a good while.

Now, somebody please lock up my credit cards.

[waxman]

I have a dual 2.5 and a Dual core 2.3

The dual core is sooooo much better. It is quiet and does not have the heat issues of the dual processors... not to mention the speed...


DP... Sibelius... Waves.... T-Racks... Trident... Tascam US 2400 MIDI fader controls...

I have been using DP since the SE 20 and 30 days.

I am living Shooshies dream. This system works so great it is like a dream come true. Making music on this stuff is the best.

waxman

[Shooshie]

Waxman, you're saying that the dual core is faster than the dual? Wow! From what i'd read, I thought the dual cores would not be as fast as a dual. Maybe it depends on the type of I/O. Could be that music gets a boost.

Does anyone else have that same impression regarding dual core speed?


Shooshie

[sdemott]

Waxman, you're saying that the dual core is faster than the dual? Wow! From what i'd read, I thought the dual cores would not be as fast as a dual. Maybe it depends on the type of I/O. Could be that music gets a boost.

Does anyone else have that same impression regarding dual core speed?


Shooshie

Remember there is more to speed than just raw GHz. The front side bus (FSB) is usually the biggest bottleneck, followed closely but the memory bus. The latest (Dual/Quad) G5s have a faster FSB & memory bus to take better advantage of the speed. Plus, since one the dual core the 2 cores are on 1 piece of silicone, there is no bottleneck between the two by having a seperate processor bus between to physical CPUs.

And...with that is the very cause of the issues with the quads (IMO). The FSB is just not fast enough to handle the 2 dual cores. You really only gain a very small % in speed despite what the CPU rating would suggest.

The Dual 2.3s are screaming fast. And even though I am a PowerBook user by obsession, I am seriously considering grabbing one while I can to use for the next several years as a monster mixing station. They are that impressive.