ANY NEW REVELATION ON HANGING MIDI NOTES w/ G5 10.4.5/4.61?

TheCoalman · Post by **TheCoalman** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:37 pm

Hey guys, I've been swimming through hundreds of threads on the hanging MIDI note problems. I came across a solution sent to someone by MOTU showing how to fix this problem: trash clockworks console, trash MIDI driver, repair permissions, reinstall new driver, etc. etc. etc. This actually worked for a day, and today, lo and behold the hanging note problem has returned in full effect. Funny thing is, the notes don't hang unless I hit 'stop' anywhere after the sequence has started. It plays through beginning to end fine, I hit stop anywhere in the sequence and hanging notes......I just upgraded to a G5 2.7 DP 4.61 and 10.4.5 from a G4 running 4.61 and 10.3.9
I never had any problems before this and I am at my wits end. I've also trashed the isight thing. still nothing...... anyone have a solution????? I'm dying here......

instacue · Post by **instacue** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:13 am

Sorry, I can't offer a solution or anything new, but you've just exactly described the symptoms I've also been having ever since DP 4.5.

Maybe if enough of us speak out someone will find a fix.

--DP 4.61, Mac G4 Dual 1.4 Gig, 2 Gig ram, Sys 10.3.9, 10.2.8, PCI USB 2.0 card, Aurora Igniter LT pci card, PCI 424, 2408 optical in and out to Apogee AD-8000, Apogee DA16, 3 MTP AV USBs, MTP II, MidiExpress 128. 12 SampleCell cards on Nubus Mac, 2 GigaStudio PCs, Aardsync II word clock house sync, Mach V, Stylus RMX, Atmosphere, Trilogy, SoundSoap, SoundSoap Pro, Altiverb

markwayne · Post by **markwayne** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:23 am

I got relief from much of my MIDI hell by setting MAS work priority to low and rolling back my MTPav drivers to 1.24. I figure that since I never have problems with straight audio on my rig, I would just do whatever I could to optimize the MIDI side of DP. DP's MIDI timing is still not as tight as I get in Logic or Live, but it is workable now and I am even back to using DP for projects once in a while.

Oddly enough my stuck notes started after I upgraded to 4.6 and then installed StylusRMX in the same day.

I started an email exchange with MD and MOTU tech support about this very issue once upon a time, but, after going through numerous exchanges including a promise to try and replicate these issues, I have not heard anything more.

Wayne

TheCoalman · Post by **TheCoalman** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:25 pm

Does changing the work priority to low have any effect on sound quality? I totally agree with you about the MIDI timing, it's much tighter in reason, and sad to say much tighter even in ProTools, I wonder why that is, I wish that cleaning up the MIDI issues would be a top priority for MOTU. It's obviously a great program but fine tuning the MIDI would make a huge difference.......

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:15 pm

Am I the only one who finds DP's MIDI to be sample-accurate in timing? I do not understand the MIDI issues you guys are reporting. I've had trouble with Tap Tempo, but that's not necessarily a MIDI issue. Recording MIDI and playback are exact, as best I can tell.

What are the "loose" symptoms you're talking about? Can you be specific?

Shooshie

oceantracks · Post by **oceantracks** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:17 pm

I've been using Pro Tools LE for years and I have hanging notes with VI's ALL the time. East West, Spectrasonics Atmosphere, Trilogy, you name it.

I don't think it's a Performer problem.

Tom H

TheCoalman · Post by **TheCoalman** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:29 pm

Shooshie wrote:Am I the only one who finds DP's MIDI to be sample-accurate in timing? I do not understand the MIDI issues you guys are reporting. I've had trouble with Tap Tempo, but that's not necessarily a MIDI issue. Recording MIDI and playback are exact, as best I can tell.

What are the "loose" symptoms you're talking about? Can you be specific?

Shooshie

Mainly the tightness or the overall "groove" of DP's MIDI, when compared to sequencing in Reason, doesn't have the lope or "pocket" that Reason churns out, its got a little soul........not really a complaint as much as an observation. But the hanging MIDI note thing is like an anomaly, it comes and goes without reason or rhyme........or rhyme or reason........also, in DP I have to shift all my MIDI data from my triton studio back 20 ticks to get it to line up.

Noizemaker · Post by **Noizemaker** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:38 am

Can't you calibrate your MIDI/audio timing. Getting Started Manual p.27

Hey Sooshie, I would definitely like to have some input on stuck MIDI notes. It seems to have gotten worst the last few days and I have no ideas why.

Noizemaker · Post by **Noizemaker** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:17 am

Funny...
Having similar setting to Coalman I've just try to turn off the computer for a few moments and then restart with fresh RAM...and then, Magic!!! All the stuck MIDI notes were gone.
For Good? I don't know...

markwayne · Post by **markwayne** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:20 am

Does changing the work priority to low have any effect on sound quality?

None at all. I believe it simply allows other threads to get more attention from the CPU.

Am I the only one who finds DP's MIDI to be sample-accurate in timing? I do not understand the MIDI issues you guys are reporting.

Mainly the tightness or the overall "groove" of DP's MIDI, when compared to sequencing in Reason, doesn't have the lope or "pocket" that Reason churns out, its got a little soul........not really a complaint as much as an observation.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I can take a MIDI file out of Logic that is dripping with swing and pull it into DP and it will sound somewhere between bland and bad. Take that same file back into Logic or Live and the feel is back. Yes, I've gone through the calibration routine. The problem is that this is not a consistent, measurable problem and it can be very subtle. It seems to be related to workload and who knows what else. I also don't put much stock in that "sample accurate timing" MOTU marketing talk. In my experience DP's audio and MIDI can both lag slightly at strange times. I've had more than one occasion where I've had to re-record a final mix several times just to get DP to play in perfect tempo all the way through.

Wayne

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:15 pm

Noizemaker wrote:Can't you calibrate your MIDI/audio timing. Getting Started Manual p.27

Hey Sooshie, I would definitely like to have some input on stuck MIDI notes. It seems to have gotten worst the last few days and I have no ideas why.

Well, I don't like being in this situation. You see, I use DP every day, and I just don't have these problems. No stuck notes, no timing problems. I don't doubt for a minute that you guys are having them. I know you wouldn't be posting about such problems if you didn't have them. But I just have no idea what's going on with your setup. Nor do I want to find out on my machine.

I'll tell you this; I did not upgrade OS X to 10.4.5. I stayed at 10.4.4 out of fear of this very thing. Could that be your problem? I'm using DP 4.61 on OS X 10.4.4, and it's as stable as it has ever been for me. I save often, but occasionally I forget to save, and will go all night working on stuff. Suddenly I remember to save and thank my lucky stars that nothing happened to crash the computer. But so far, no crashes, no stuck notes, no timing problem... things are really pretty good.

I'm using:

••• Dual 1GHz G4 Quicksilver (2002)
••• 23" Cinema Display
••• 1.5 GB RAM
••• OS X 10.4.4
••• DP 4.61
••• MOTU 896 (not the HD, but the old 896)
••• MOTU 424 PCI interface with:
----2408 mkII
----1296
••• MIDI TimePiece AV USB
••• MIDI TimePiece AV Serial (networked to the USB MTP)
••• Virtual instruments:
----Ivory 1.5
----Akoustik Piano 1.0
----MOTU Symphonic Instrument
----MOTU Mach Five
••• assorted rack gear
••• Unisyn 4.11

Settings:
work Priority: medium
Buffer: 256
Host Multiplier: usually 1 or 2, depending on how many interfaces I have on line at the time. I don't use more than I need, and when I just use one interface, I don't get clicks and pops.
Voices: up to 30 stereo and 16 Mono
Windows: Consolidated

I can't think of anything else to post. If you think of any other settings that might be relevant, let me know and I'll tell you what I've got running on my system.

I have no idea why I'm so lucky as not to have any of the stuck notes problems. Maybe it will happen at some point; I hope not. Meanwhile, All I can tell you is that it IS possible to have a relatively trouble-free DP setup.

Shooshie

Noizemaker · Post by **Noizemaker** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:57 pm

I'm not sure of this being my problem but yesterday when I left work, I forgot to quit DP before putting the computer to sleep and when I got to work this morning, MAS had been turned off by I guess the fact that the computer had lost connection with the hardware audio device because it had been sleeping all night (Poor thing it was tired!!!

) I think it was the trigger for all this weird stuff that suddently happened to ME. I usually have a pretty solid set up but I guess I got scared by all this hype about MIDI sticking notes in several threads of this forum. After I posted my last message, I took your advice (from the sticky thread about having a crash free DP) and I just rebooted the computer. Everything was just fine after that. Thanks Sooshie.

TheCoalman · Post by **TheCoalman** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:43 pm

[quote="Shooshie"]

I'll tell you this; I did not upgrade OS X to 10.4.5. I stayed at 10.4.4 out of fear of this very thing. Could that be your problem? I'm using DP 4.61 on OS X 10.4.4, and it's as stable as it has ever been for me. I save often, but occasionally I forget to save, and will go all night working on stuff. Suddenly I remember to save and thank my lucky stars that nothing happened to crash the computer. But so far, no crashes, no stuck notes, no timing problem... things are really pretty good.

Shooshie[/quote]

I was never having this problem until I went from a G4 1.25 DP running 4.61 and 10.3.9 to a G5 2.7 DP running 4.61 and 10.4.5. MIDI note hang was not happening with my earlier setup and now it is........I have realized that after shutting down and then returning to work the next day, the problem was gone. I've been out of town so I haven't been able to do anymore tests. It is possible that it is a 10.4.5 problem. Here is what my hardware setup consists of......

G5 2.7 Dual
2G RAM
10.4.5
DP 4.61
Work Priority: High
Buffer: 128
828 MK I connected directly to G5(latest drivers)
Express XT connected directly to G5(latest drivers)
Triton Studio

everything else is software......very basic setup.

lsdd · Post by **lsdd** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:50 pm

Hey Coalman!
I'm there too!! Got a very similer spec to yours and started my own thread about it.

I'm on 10.3.9 ,scared to move!! But do think that 4.61 gave me MIDI hell. Mine is so unstable...
"Intermittent Latency" anyone?

The "stuck notes" are a constant ocurrance....

Would be nice to hear a ,positive, reply from someone who has "Rock solid MIDI" on Dp. Give us a rundown...
xxd

waterstrum · Post by **waterstrum** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:23 am

I have "Rock solid MIDI" on DP 4.61 OS 10.4.5.
I'm not sure why.
I had the stuck MIDI notes quite a while ago and it made me nuts.
I don't know what fixed it.
I'm using MTPAV and MIDI express with a bunch of external boxes.
I'm also using many VIs.
I'm using a dual 2.5.
This is the most stable, reliable system I've ever had. (including tape)
I'm sorry to hear that problem persists.