Recommendations for Tracking Drums in a small room

SuperDave · Post by **SuperDave** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:08 am

I would like to track a kit in a room that is 10'X11'X12' high. I'll be miking the snare, hi hat, bass and using studio projects c4's as overheads. Are there any considerations I should take on the placement of my overheads in this small room?

detroitdiesel · Post by **detroitdiesel** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:00 pm

The two best ways to work within the rooms limits:

1 Randomize the wall surfaces (some absorbent material here, some reflective material here...) Be creative.

2 Place mics close (sound will have less of a chance of being colored by the room if the mics hear the sound directly)

You may wind up with a tight sound. This is not a bad thing.

Is this Jazz, rock, blues?

Listen to other records (of a similar genre) every 15 minutes or so while micing the kit and listening back. This will keep you grounded.

If it sounds good, you did your job.

Good luck,
DD

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:05 pm

I suggest also that you mic the toms also (if you can) Maybe don't mic the HH cause you should have plenty of that in the OH. That way you might be able to free up a channel for toms.

SuperDave · Post by **SuperDave** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:56 am

Rock is the style. Any suggestions for some Tom mics that won't break the bank? Any comments on the audix fusion series?
As far as the reflections in the room, would it help to open windows and doors to let some sound "escape"?

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:28 am

Tom Mikes??? Good Old SM-57's

So far as considerations. Your ears are the champs....

The closer to the cymbals, the less the room will have an effect when you mix as the cymbals will be louder in those mikes. The further away, more ambient and the more the room will have an effect on your overall sound.

The other thing to do is when mixing run the OH's through a nice verb (which ever you select) to alter the perception of the space you are hearing.

jerkrecords · Post by **jerkrecords** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:05 pm

agreed..
57's on toms/snare (could even work inthe kick dammit) - or -
d112 in kick
c4s as overs...

no hihat mic needed.

pete

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:02 pm

I have a small room where I track my drums and it is mostly treated. It is not fully treated as I've been debating building an iso-booth in the garage (I pre-wired multi-channel cabling during constructions for when this time came). Omnis are wonderful to use in a smaller space to give you the illusion of a larger area, but as pointed out... a room can also work against you. Personally, I can not stand to go without miking the Hi Hat and Ride as I like to have that total control later and well, I prefer that close-up sound--not distant as you can get in overheads. There are so many ways to mike drums that all sound different from one to the next, likewise your choice of gear and the room have an impact on the sound as does the player.

Personally I don't recommend SM57's on TOMS.....but a great alternative for about the same price point are the Studio Projects B1's. These little babies are $99 condenser's with the shockmount that provide not only a nice attack, but a good sustain that you just don't get out of an SM57. Personally, I use the Audix D2's and D4 on Low Tom as I bought the DP5A kit for live use, but found they are excellent in the studio. I use the D6 inside the kick, and a Mojave MA200 outside the kick. I like to take the punch from inside and the "oomph" from the outside. I use an Audix D1 on top of the snare, but the key to a great snare track is also miking the bottom of the snare and mixing them together. Even another B1 here will work just fine. I use Earthworks TC30K's as overheads and mix a Royer R121 in the middle above the kit. I was using AKG C451B's on the Hi Hat and Ride, but sold the mics for something more important at the time....now I miss them since I'm getting back into tracking again. But on a budget, yeah those C4's as overheads are a very nice bang for the buck because of the switchable Omni/Cardiod capsule. Pssssssst here is a little trick if you didn't mike the bottom of the snare... copy the track and put a little white-noise on it. I use my Eventide H3000 plugin in ProToolsHD (thanks for that preset Mr Barry Rudolph!!) and it does wonders for adding some gritty, punchy tone to a snare.

You're going to have to play with the mic-positioning in the room as every room is different. You can get a GREAT sound miking the kick, snare, and overheads. But again, it depends on what you're after.

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:25 pm

Pssssssst here is a little trick if you didn't mike the bottom of the snare... copy the track and put a little white-noise on it.

Wow!!!

Brad, I cannot wait to try this out! I'm currently getting ready to remotely track 30 songs worth of drums for my friends' band and I will definitely try this out. I'll copy and run the second snare through the Minimonsta's input and add some white noise.

BTW, a good friend of mine and former work buddy at Music123 named Matt just moved out to IN and started working at Sweetwater. Stop by and say hello if you haven't met him already. He's a total recording geek and a sweet guy. He'll fit in well out there.

Sorry to hijack the thread with that.

I've cut drums in my apartment's a-frame attic with some success, but on some early songs from '03 the reflections caused phase issues. Dry wall is fun.

Jeff

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:17 pm

Another nice trick is a nice non-linear reverb on snare.

jmoore · Post by **jmoore** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:09 pm

giles117 wrote:Another nice trick is a nice non-linear reverb on snare.

This is probably a stupid question, but what is a non-linear reverb?

-jordan

oldguitars · Post by **oldguitars** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:24 pm

I like to use the preamp plug to add some fizz on a snare.

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:17 am

jmoore wrote:
giles117 wrote:Another nice trick is a nice non-linear reverb on snare.
This is probably a stupid question, but what is a non-linear reverb?

-jordan

Not stupid cuz not all ITB reverbs have a non-linear patch. I know waves Rverb does (which is why I keep it around), the old Ensoniq DP/2 & DP/4 have non-linear patches.....Powercore has the NonLin2 reverb Plugin from their system 6000, which sounds great by the way.....

Nasically it is a noisy metallic sounding verb, that when set right can emulate the "snare" sound of a snare drum or any or crazy sound you might need. LOL

The TC is the better ITB implemtation of a nonlinar to me. he Rverb is too verby sounding....but workable when tweaked.

Rick03079 · Post by **Rick03079** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:02 pm

I saw a reply about adding white noise to a copied snare thrack if I can't record the bottom head. What is white noise??

Spikey Horse · Post by **Spikey Horse** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:27 pm

White noise

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_noise

RE: the toms - Having recorded once in a basement of similar size I thought I'd suggest using PZMs. They always captured the toms and kick very well in that small room situation - they get the 'meat' of the whole kit really, in a very natural, pleasing, slightly 'grungy' way. Just experiment with placement around the kit (floor, walls etc).

Depending on the other mics used and the sound you are after etc you can start with the PZM mix and bring in the other mics or do it the other way round and bring in the PZMs to a mix as a way to add body instead of EQing. I've always been a fan of PZMs on a kit...

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:47 am

If nobody's mentioned 421s on the toms yet, I'll volunteer that it's probably the most recommended mic for toms in my reading (But, they are a relatively expensive dynamic at around $350). I use an e601 kick drum mic ($200) on my floor tom, and it sounds huge. I watched the Stanton Moore DVD last week, and noticed he uses the Audix kick drum mike on his floor tom as well.

Another trick to try on snare is Ring Modulator.

And I discovered you can get all kinds of goofy percussion sounds using the Apple Pitch plug-in. Try it on the drum submix for instant Techno beats.

MOTUnation.com

Recommendations for Tracking Drums in a small room

Recommendations for Tracking Drums in a small room

White noise????