Stuck MIDI notes...arrrrrgggggghhhhhh!

[instacue]

I have found the solution for the sticking notes problem that we all have had for all this time. A friend of mine told me about an assistant to a famous film composer who was experiencing the "sticking notes" problem. My friend said that the assistant installed a program called MIDIOVERLAN and it fixed the problem.

I was going to contact this assistant, but decided to install the program first and see if I could figure it out. I downloaded it from the internet, read the manual, installed it and quickly configured the program.

The sticking notes ARE GONE. I created an eight measure sequence in DP4.61 using (2) gigastudios and a roland synthesizer. I used a ton of polyphony and many controllers. I looped the first eight measures and let it run for 30 minutes. There was not one instance of a "sticking note."

I hope this works for you guys, too. It seems like MIDIOVERLAN bypasses the audiomidi setup. The cause of the sticking notes must be related to the osx MIDI setup.

You can download the program here:

http://www.musiclab.com/products/rpl_info.htm


What a relief. I hope this solution "sticks."


Jason Johnson

Please explain how to interface hardware synths using MOL. I visited their website and read the manual. I understand clearly how one links networks of computers, multiple software applications and internal virtual synths, but what about external multitimbral synths? Is there a way to network several MTP AV (USB) with external synths hooked up to individual MTP MIDI out ports (and some sending MIDI hooked up to MTP MIDI in ports) using MOL?

If so, I'm in!

Thanks,
--DP 4.61, Mac G4 Dual 1.4 Gig, 2 Gig ram, Sys 10.3.9, 10.2.8, PCI USB 2.0 card, Aurora Igniter LT pci card, PCI 424, 2408 optical in and out to Apogee AD-8000, Apogee DA16, 3 MTP AV USBs, MTP II, MidiExpress 128. 12 SampleCell cards on Nubus Mac, 2 GigaStudio PCs, Aardsync II word clock house sync, Mach V, Stylus RMX, Atmosphere, Trilogy, SoundSoap, SoundSoap Pro, Altiverb

[jjas7]

Don't worry about networking multiple computers. Just install the program, go through each port within the program and enable the MIDI in, out or both. Name each port. They should correspond with your MIDI interface(s). In my case, I have (2) MIDI time pieces because I have so many samplers, external synthesizers. I just looked at my MIDI time piece setup and duplicated the information in MIDIOVERLAN.

Keep me posted.

[instacue]

Don't worry about networking multiple computers. Just install the program, go through each port within the program and enable the MIDI in, out or both. Name each port. They should correspond with your MIDI interface(s). In my case, I have (2) MIDI time pieces because I have so many samplers, external synthesizers. I just looked at my MIDI time piece setup and duplicated the information in MIDIOVERLAN.

Keep me posted.

Thanks, I'll try it!

[labman]

I have found the solution for the sticking notes problem that we all have had for all this time. A friend of mine told me about an assistant to a famous film composer who was experiencing the "sticking notes" problem. My friend said that the assistant installed a program called MIDIOVERLAN and it fixed the problem.

I was going to contact this assistant, but decided to install the program first and see if I could figure it out. I downloaded it from the internet, read the manual, installed it and quickly configured the program.

The sticking notes ARE GONE. I created an eight measure sequence in DP4.61 using (2) gigastudios and a roland synthesizer. I used a ton of polyphony and many controllers. I looped the first eight measures and let it run for 30 minutes. There was not one instance of a "sticking note."

I hope this works for you guys, too. It seems like MIDIOVERLAN bypasses the audiomidi setup. The cause of the sticking notes must be related to the osx MIDI setup.

You can download the program here:

http://www.musiclab.com/products/rpl_info.htm


What a relief. I hope this solution "sticks."


Jason Johnson

Hi Jason,

I know we are all really busy, but would you be kind enough to check in with this thread once a week for a bit to let us all know you experience. We hope it will be consistent, and a wonderful solution. We are in the midst of contract ending late April, and would love to use you as a guinea pig. (Our techs dont allow updates/installs amidst scheduled work unless an absolute emergency.

Regards, and thanks so much.
DLevy
mgr, Legacy Lab

[jjas7]

No problem. I will check in regularly. I have been working today and unfortunately, have had a few sticking notes, but it's much much better than it used to be. I probably didn't configure MIDIOVERLAN properly. I will be scheduling a meeting next week with the person who came up with this solution and find out the best way to use MIDIOVERLAN.

DP4 is working a lot better now. I probably need to tweak some things and then it will run even better.

Thanks!

Jason

[williemyers]

insta...
if I'm not mistaken, you will *not* be able to interface your hardware synths to your Mac using MOL. MOL is designed to link up multiple computers and has no way to speak to hardware MIDI boxes.
In my setup, I could (but haven't for multiple reasons) use MOL to connect my Mac (DP) to my PC (GigaStudio), and - at the same time - have my Mac (DP) USB'd to an MTP AV, which would speak to my 6 MIDI boxes.
Perhaps one day we'll get a hardware MIDI interface with Ethernet "in" and MIDI's "out", but as of today, I don't think MOL can talk to hardware boxes.

BTW, while it's really great to hear news that MOL has solved one users MIDI hang problems, it's worth noting that over on MusicLab's BB, quite a number of users *are* reporting MIDI hang, using MOL. Unfortunately, most experiences keep pointing back to the possibility that it's Digital Performer (versions 4.5 and higher) and/or OS 10.4 or higher that are causing the problem(s) and if that's the case, no new solution of sending MIDI data is going to resolve the problem, if there's corrupted data to begin with.

whatever,

bill myers, composer

[instacue]

insta...
if I'm not mistaken, you will *not* be able to interface your hardware synths to your Mac using MOL. MOL is designed to link up multiple computers and has no way to speak to hardware MIDI boxes.
In my setup, I could (but haven't for multiple reasons) use MOL to connect my Mac (DP) to my PC (GigaStudio), and - at the same time - have my Mac (DP) USB'd to an MTP AV, which would speak to my 6 MIDI boxes.
Perhaps one day we'll get a hardware MIDI interface with Ethernet "in" and MIDI's "out", but as of today, I don't think MOL can talk to hardware boxes.

BTW, while it's really great to hear news that MOL has solved one users MIDI hang problems, it's worth noting that over on MusicLab's BB, quite a number of users *are* reporting MIDI hang, using MOL. Unfortunately, most experiences keep pointing back to the possibility that it's Digital Performer (versions 4.5 and higher) and/or OS 10.4 or higher that are causing the problem(s) and if that's the case, no new solution of sending MIDI data is going to resolve the problem, if there's corrupted data to begin with.

whatever,

bill myers, composer

Thanks, Bill for that,
I didn't quite get it either - how to interface MOL to hardware synths currently networked via MTP AVs (USB). (Ideas, explanations?)

To confirm, on my system, there's no end to stuck notes in DP 4.61 and every version since DP 4.5, but DP version 4.12 NEVER sticks notes, using the exact same setup (see below). I've never understood why later DP versions stick notes - and to date I've yet to see a reliable fix.
Best,
--DP 4.61, Mac G4 Dual 1.4 Gig, 2 Gig ram, Sys 10.3.9, 10.2.8, PCI USB 2.0 card, Aurora Igniter LT pci card, PCI 424, 2408 optical in and out to Apogee AD-8000, Apogee DA16, 3 MTP AV USBs, MTP II, MidiExpress 128. 12 SampleCell cards on Nubus Mac, 2 GigaStudio PCs, Aardsync II word clock house sync, Mach V, Stylus RMX, Atmosphere, Trilogy, SoundSoap, SoundSoap Pro, Altiverb

[jjas7]

I talked to the tech and he gave me the following information:

midioverlan is especially helpful if you are using gigastudios...

1. connect your macintosh to your gigastudio via ethernet.
2. configure both your macintosh and your gigastudio using the midioverlan software.
3. you will not need to use a mtp or MIDI cables for your gigastudios anymore. midioverlan will replace this.

regarding external synthesizers (that don't have ethernet, obviously): you will need to still use your mtp and configure the MIDI in the audio/MIDI setup on your macintosh.

[markwayne]

Okay, as some of you know, I've been using Logic to get caught up with work because of MIDI weirdness I'd been experiencing with DP.

Well, I got caught up last week (saddly, I must say that Logic was pretty much flawless during these sessions) so I blocked out some time for a couple of personal projects. I decided to use this as a chance to try a few things with DP to see if I could get MIDI a little tighter.

Long story short: I ended up moving all my MIDI devices that require MTC and beat clocks to a single port of my MPTav, filtered all data except notes and controllers on all the other ports and I also set MAS work priority to low.

Things have been much, much better. I've used DP for a solid week now. CPU usage has gone down slightly, MIDI has been much tighter, I have only had one stuck note which may have been my fault (I changed a patch on my K2500rs from the front panel in the middle of a dense sequence), I can use more than two channels of StylusRMX and I have been getting better track and plugin counts. This is all running DP 4.61 under 10.3.9 with the 1.24d drivers for the MTPav on a 1.25gHz MDD with 2 gig of RAM.

I'll let you know if anything changes, but at this point I'm close to the performance levels I was getting with a (pre-optimized) Logic install. It looks like I now have a choice to make when I return to client work next week.

Wayne

[Tobor]

Thanks for the report, Wayne- sounds promising!

Just wondering- do you chain all (and how many?) synths to this one port via midithru, synth to synth? Seems like old fashioned MIDI lag might be a bit of a problem......

FWIW, I have been simulating something similar for a long time now by muting 'Realtime' in Clockworks on all ports but the one I'm using DP to slave to.

I've also gone back to DP 4.12 (again my OS won't let me upgrade to 4.61) and timing has been very good. A relief and timesaver for me to be able to use midiclock sync again. It's interesting to study the various event lists depending on whether DP is master or slave (e.g. the first kick on '1' might fall on anything from 475 to 038), but performance has been consistent either way.

Please keep us posted and thanks for the research.

[markwayne]

Just wondering- do you chain all (and how many?) synths to this one port via midithru, synth to synth? Seems like old fashioned MIDI lag might be a bit of a problem......

No. I just took an old MSB+ I had lying about and pressed it into service as an MTC distibution hub. I have a total of five devices including two slave computers that require MTC, beat clocks or both. This setup seems to work pretty well. I'll let you know if any weirdness creeps back into my rig. FWIW - Performance in Logic is also much improved after these changes so I get the feeling DP could certainly use a little spring, code cleaning.

Oh, and by the way. I never did hear back from MOTU after Magic Dave wrote to say that they were going to try to put a rig together and replicate these problems. It's not like I get great service from Apple either, but still . . .

Wayne

[jjas7]

Hello everyone who is suffering from the stuck notes problem. Please visit this site and sign the petition to urge MOTU and Apple to fix the "sticking notes" problem.

I have spoke to MOTU many times and they believe that it is NOT a widespread problem, so I think we need to show them that it is...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stucknotes/

[Shooshie]

I talked to one of their tech support people and explained my database, which (in my opinion) proves not only that stuck notes are a genuine issue, but that in the majority of cases they come down to the use of MIDI driver version 1.3.2. (If you haven't downgraded to 1.3.1, I suggest you do so. It has solved many people's stuck notes)

The fellow I talked to did not want to hear what I was saying. He said only "upgrade to DP version 5.01. That fixes everything. I explained that no, it does not, and the fact that it does not is the very reason I created the database, which took a heck of a lot of work to do. I asked if they would look at it if I sent it, and he said go ahead and send it.

I sent them the link, explained that I hoped all of them would take a look at the data.

I never heard a word back.


Shooshie

[Shooshie]

PS: I do not have stuck notes. The fact that I was able to have a trouble-free system and others could not became the other principle motivating force behind creating the database.

If you do not know about the database but would like to know more, go to the sticky entitled DP Tips Sheet, and look at the last post or so.

Shooshie

[bone.china]

Welp! Stuck MIDI notes are still alive and well in 5.1ub. F@#$%^& gremlins!