Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

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Killahurts
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Re: Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

Post by Killahurts »

James Steele wrote: Thu Apr 10, 2025 1:08 pm The whole situation just seems really daunting to me. I can't see many independent musicians able to invest in the proper setup with a decent room and multiple speakers, not to mention the added investment perhaps in updated interfaces to provide more analog i/o, etc. in order to produce "proper" ATMOS mixes. It all seems that--intended or not--the end result is forcing indy musicians to have to go back and spend big bucks to the studios that CAN set up an ATMOS mixing room and exploit this industry top-down driven demand.
I didn't start taking Atmos for music seriously until around 18 months ago. 20 years ago, I had been burned by the 5.1 surround craze, and didn't want a rinse and repeat of that. But for reasons having solely to do with streaming, I decided I wanted to try it, as an experiment. I have a rather large control room, and a permanent Atmos install would require 11 powerful speakers and a sub, and some complex considerations (i.e. expensive) on how to mount the 4 ceiling speakers in my space. All that amounted to way more than I wanted to spend on an unproven format (unproven for me, in that I didn't know if there would be any ROI).

So I got inventive. I created a small, portable Atmos speaker system inside the control room. With the speakers only 8 feet away, I could get by with a much smaller set. Since all Atmos has to be mixed in the box, I decided to use software for everything else (unfortunately, my specific system eventually needed an expensive hardware monitor controller). I made a contraption out of lighting stands for each of the 4 height speakers- they looked like the game hangman, only speakers instead of a man. I set up all my delays, etc., and I was happily mixing 7.1.4 music professionally, both in speakers, and binaural headphones (both are equally important). Best part? When I'm composing and not mixing Atmos, I can take the system down and store it! It's a couple days to set it back up, but worth the trade-off.

So how does one gear up without breaking the bank? Would you have to cough up a few thousand? Well sure- but, just take a quick look around your studio.. would you have to spend tens of thousands? Absolutely not.

Tell you what, here's a possible solution for you professional artists and producers that want to trick the big money machine we've been talking about here. Learn how to do it yourself, and do it for way, way less. Just like home studios ended the era of the big facilities.

You'll need an interface with 12-16 analog outputs and headphones out. There are many of these out there, so I won't mention any specifically. Also, you will need a subwoofer, but you may already have one, so:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ndle-black

These can be mounted on regular mic stands, and they have mounts available for the 4 heights for around $250, IIRC.

https://www.gingeraudio.com/sphere-imme ... controller

$500. It does everything. Bass management, delays, full monitoring and switching control- e.g you can have 2 headphone monitors you switch between, one for Dolby binaural, and one with a plugin that shows what it will sound like on Apple Music, all in real time. You can use it with things like this:

https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-refe ... ltichannel

Another $500, but helps you set up your Atmos speakers automatically with a calibration mic, setting your EQ's and delays, and volumes, and then applying those as plugins in Sphere, to balance the speakers to your room.

So here, minus the sub and the interface, is a $5-6k solution that would have you mixing 7.1.4 professionally. You would probably pay an Atmos facility more than that, to mix one album. I understand that your room may be impossibly small, or that it's just simply out of your budget. No worries! I just wanted to show that there is a reasonable way into this for most of the mid-level home studios out there.
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Michael Canavan
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Re: Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

Post by Michael Canavan »

It's the fifth year going of weekly Zoom webinars, and they stay up as watchable for a little under a week after they air. They always include the chance to ask questions at the end. This isn't the sign of a company giving up on their DAW.
viewtopic.php?t=74994
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James Steele
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Re: Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

Post by James Steele »

Michael Canavan wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:04 am It's the fifth year going of weekly Zoom webinars, and they stay up as watchable for a little under a week after they air. They always include the chance to ask questions at the end. This isn't the sign of a company giving up on their DAW.
viewtopic.php?t=74994
Nope... but a sign of a company that still is not leveraging social media like they should. Why they take these videos down mystifies me still. Facebook... good... fewer potential new users will find it there. 720p? Really? Sigh. :banghead:
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Re: Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

Post by James Steele »

BKK-OZ wrote: Wed Apr 09, 2025 3:39 pmSweet baby jebus MLC, keep your projections to yourself.
How fvcking arrogant and presumptuous can you be, eh?
Just read what I wrote.

For the 10th time…
I know that I need to move away from DP because of its inadequacies in one particular area (spatial audio, distinct and separate from old school simple surround). But I also know that there are a bunch of other things where DP is lagging.

I wanted to know if others are considering the same, and what their thoughts/experiences were/are.

AFAIK, this is a reasonable thing to ask.

Any more personal sledging and you and I are done, ok?
Hey... I understand people have strong opinions sometimes. I'm not taking sides here, but let's everybody, incl. MLC, try to be a bit more diplomatic here. Thanks.
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Re: Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

Post by daniel.sneed »

To make a simple and clear answer to OP: for sure, it's not the moment for me to quit working with DP.
To each his own, and as usual YMMV.
Hope you find your way and get the job well done (and well paid!).
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Michael Canavan
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Re: Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

Post by Michael Canavan »

James Steele wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:57 am
Michael Canavan wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:04 am It's the fifth year going of weekly Zoom webinars, and they stay up as watchable for a little under a week after they air. They always include the chance to ask questions at the end. This isn't the sign of a company giving up on their DAW.
viewtopic.php?t=74994
Nope... but a sign of a company that still is not leveraging social media like they should. Why they take these videos down mystifies me still. Facebook... good... fewer potential new users will find it there. 720p? Really? Sigh. :banghead:
Yeah, IMO they should curate the videos for various tips, they've been offered assistance but they haven't taken anyone up on it.

MOTU are different, that's for sure. The comparison company size wise is Bitwig, both are not owned by a conglomerate or major company, but Bitwig just put out their first hardware audio interface, before that it was all software. So for a long time they've been more focused on their software.

most of the playing field is heavy hitters:

Cubase/Nuendo - Yamaha

Studio One - Fender

Logic - Apple

Pro Tools - Avid (owned by a private equity group STG)

Even Reason, FL Studio, Akai MPC, Cakewalk etc. are owned by private equity groups.

There's only Ableton Live, Cockos Reaper, Bitwig, and MOTU DP that are independently owned, of those only Reaper is really a competitor in terms of DAW style, although I do know one person who switched from DP to Live.
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Re: Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

Post by Jim »

DP was my first DAW. I started with Performer. My entire music catalog was created using it. So, I'm not likely to abandon it.

Even though DP has AAF and OMFI export, swapping to any other DAW would be painful given what doesn't translate from one DAW to another.

Seems to me if any company wanted to lure defectors from another DAW to theirs, they could provide a script or app that would do seamless project re-writes.

Given all the DAWs in existence now, trying to include all could be a monumental task.

There was a company in the early days of FCP, Avid, and Premiere that sold an app that did this for video projects. They weren't seamless translations, but close enough to make the transition from one NLE to another relatively worth the pain.
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Re: Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

Post by Michael Canavan »

Jim wrote: Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:00 am Seems to me if any company wanted to lure defectors from another DAW to theirs, they could provide a script or app that would do seamless project re-writes.
https://bedroomproducersblog.com/2023/10/03/dawproject/

So far Steinberg Cubase,, Presonus Studio One, Bitwig, Cockos Reaper, and I bellieve FL Studio? are on board. Ableton Live, Apple Logic, Avid Pro Tools and MOTU DP, and Reason, are so far not.

The obvious breakthrough is Steinberg, but Pro Tools, Logic, and Live will be harder to bring in IMO. MOTU will probably only come in when it's near universal.

The thing is it really also needs a universal plugin format, so CLAP needs to come along for the ride.
https://cleveraudio.org

In some ways all this seems like dreams to me since these sorts of universal standards take forever to be implemented and I'm in my late 50's, likely in my 70's by the time they're standards.
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Re: Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

Post by bayswater »

My deux-centes: I often use different DAWs for different project stages, something I started doing when the early versions of Mixbus arrived. The new Mixbus 11 does Atmos, and is inexpensive. I don't anticipate doing an Atmos, mix, but if I do, the tracking and editing will be in DP, which I think is better at this than the alternatives, and then the mix will be in Mixbus. A lot easier than "switching" DAWs. There is some overhead in moving audio among apps, but even that is simplified with a bit of time spent templating.
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