Looks like it’s time to move away from DP - wondering if others are doing the same

[BKK-OZ]

I think you guys may be being a tad dismissive of the progression of spatial audio and its usefulness as a medium - for not only music, but video, art installations, etc.

Apple’s spatial audio (different and distinct from ATMOS - they’re not the same) is really opening up possibilities for a new, much wider audience for spatially enhanced audio. It’s cool. It’s a good thing.

Yes, it’s a new thing to learn.
That’s good too.
I want to keep learning.

As for the tech being only for high-end studios, that’s not true anymore.
$150 gets you fully set up to work with/render ATMOS.

Done well, spatial audio is really quite enjoyable and you don’t need a billion dollars worth of speakers, just a pair of headphones and a binaural mix.

[Michael Canavan]

As for the tech being only for high-end studios, that’s not true anymore.
$150 gets you fully set up to work with/render ATMOS.

I get that you're set on ditching DP, but there's been workarounds for Atmos for years now, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDxQPQR1E4M

Plus and do not take this personally, I find it odd when people go on a DAW specific forum and want affirmation for their disappointment in that DAW? I completely understand addressing specific concerns as in Atmos etc. but all the weird little jabs like "Studio One is definitely a few generations ahead of DP 11." Honestly I don't think so at all, they just recently added in Clips features, I haven't messed with how they do it, but it looks to be a bit less robust than DP or Logics take on it, and obviously not as robust as Live or Bitwig. Every DAW has strengths and weaknesses, Logic has amazing instrument plugins and samplers, Reaper has hands down the best rendering options of any DAW I've used, once you get over the initial oddities Live is the most intuitive DAW out there easiest time stretching etc. etc.

Again, this is the longest gap between versions of DP that has happened, maybe ever, but definitely since version 4, and I don't know one DAW developer that sends out a road map of what they plan on adding to their DAW before announcing it? or in the case of Bitwig and Live, putting out a public beta etc. Plus, they have been hosting webinars for FIVE YEARS now as of April 9nth 2025.
They're a bit off the cuff, not youtube ready really, so MOTU only has them up for about 5-6 days afterwards, but this doesn't seem like disinterest to me.

I mean at $150 for a crossgrade it's not the end of the world. I ended up with Logic and Reaper for similar reasons, wanting a new feature in MPE support that DP didn't have, but my story is likely yours, in that I returned to DP full time after it got MPE support.

[James Steele]

As for the tech being only for high-end studios, that’s not true anymore.
$150 gets you fully set up to work with/render ATMOS

Really? So if I'm a musician/band and I want to make a stereo mix into an ATMOS mix, I can get everything I need to do that for $150? Links please?

Also... is the binaural approximation going to sound as good as if it were done on a true ATMOS setup with multiple speakers? I guess I'm skeptical. I still see ATMOS as a solution in search of a problem that is being pushed from the top down by Apple, Dolby, etc. There was no groundswell of consumer demand for this. What I resent is the arm-twisting that seems to be going on by the "powers that be." It feels like it's being shoved down our throats whether we want it or not.

[James Steele]

They're a bit off the cuff, not youtube ready really, so MOTU only has them up for about 5-6 days afterwards, but this doesn't seem like disinterest to me.

I still disagree with this policy MOTU has of taking them down. Makes no sense to me. What? Are they embarrassed about the production quality? I've watched YouTube videos and "youtube ready" doesn't seem like all that high of a bar.

[BKK-OZ]

<sigh>

I am not looking for affirmation of any kind.
I don’t care what you think of my decision making.
Really.

I came to this forum to ask if others, like myself long-time DP users, were considering other options.
I came here specifically because I am interested in how people have experienced the transition if they have started using another DAW.

As to the relative status of DAWs, of course there are strengths and weaknesses.
And different price points.
But I don’t think it’s possible to objectively state that DP is currently on par with most other DAWs.
Just look at the feature sets available and compare.
Some of the new features may not hold much attraction for you, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

[BKK-OZ]

Really? So if I'm a musician/band and I want to make a stereo mix into an ATMOS mix, I can get everything I need to do that for $150? Links please?

Yes.
The cross grade price for PreSonus Studio One is $150.
(See previous comments of mine above.)
It comes with a very tightly (and elegantly) integrated set of ATMOS tools.
All of their stock plugins are multichannel output too.

Cubase Pro is on sale ATM as well.

Of course, Dear Reality has recently changed ownership and released all of their immersive plugins free.

You can google all of this pretty easily.
I’m not making it up.

No, a binaural experience isn’t the same as a fully equipped ATMOS speaker rig.
I never said it was.
The binaural experience is still really cool though, and it works - it’s not a gimmick.

[HCMarkus]

If I start getting Atmos requests, I'll look into the Studio One crossgrade; good info, thanks for sharing BKK-OZ!

But I'll still do most of my work in DP, I'm pretty darn sure. I'm not too old to learn, but I don't want to reinvent my wheel. Easy enough to import tracks, even pre-mix stems, into an Atmos environment and go from there.

[James Steele]

Really? So if I'm a musician/band and I want to make a stereo mix into an ATMOS mix, I can get everything I need to do that for $150? Links please?

Yes.
The cross grade price for PreSonus Studio One is $150.
(See previous comments of mine above.)
It comes with a very tightly (and elegantly) integrated set of ATMOS tools.
All of their stock plugins are multichannel output too.

Cubase Pro is on sale ATM as well.

Ahhh... okay, you meant the crossgrade price. I misunderstood. I thought maybe you were talking about tools that let you do this within DP? I already own Studio One 7 and Cubase Pro 14. (As well as Logic & Pro Tools.)

No, a binaural experience isn’t the same as a fully equipped ATMOS speaker rig.
I never said it was.
The binaural experience is still really cool though, and it works - it’s not a gimmick.

That's cool. I guess I'm not at a point where I really need to do ATMOS for the binaural experience. Again, it may be really cool, but I don't think think it's been driven by consumer demand. It's still something being pushed on consumers by Apple, Dolby, etc. And they may succeed in shoving it down the public's throats since they're that powerful. I guess I'm going to stay here in the "stereo ghetto" for a while yet.

[mikehalloran]

I guess I'm not at a point where I really need to do ATMOS for the binaural experience. Again, it may be really cool, but I don't think think it's been driven by consumer demand. It's still something being pushed on consumers by Apple, Dolby, etc.

Until this thread, I’ve had no interest in ATMOS at all. I’ve heard it in movie theaters but, with a few exceptions have not felt that it enhanced my theater experience at all.

So, yesterday, I was downloading a Joni Mitchell box set (Archives the Asylum Years) and found that it included ATMOS mixes of four albums including a couple favorites: For the Roses and Court and Spark. Ok, I guess it’s to don some headphones and see what the fuss is about.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

We see you're not happy with DP for surround stuff. Others may not be happy with other aspects. That is the nature of software (and many things in life). Are you looking for suggestions on alternate software? Are you looking for suggestions on workarounds in DP?

Your post title seems to indicate that you're looking (wondering) to see if others are considering jumping from DP to some other software.

One of the main reasons I chose DP was because it supported surround sound formats.

But DP has been lagging behind other DAWs with surround/binaural/Atmos capability for awhile now

If surround, binaural, and Atmos capabilities are your main criteria, then you're missing the many other and absolutely indispensable aspects of DP that make it the best DAW for composers. I've rarely used the surround features in DP, but when I have the producers (and I) are/am always thrilled with the results.

One can make the same argument about Finale, which is at end of life. There's some stuff it can't do, but what it does do, it does exceptionally well, at least in my studio. And the same goes for DP.

Your post would be more accurately be titled: "Looks like it’s time FOR ME to move away from DP"

Then do it, but don't expect to start a mass migration from this forum (or perhaps you're looking for a crying circle?) b/c you have yet to find an app that can execute your idea of what DP or any other app was designed for. One might make the same case about notation in DP. I wish it had the same features of Finale, but it doesn't so I use both.

It should go without saying that different programs are designed with different capabilities and intentions. If there's a program that does what you want, you should be able to find that out in a few minutes with a well worded Google search. If you can find that, good for you! Go for it. If you can't find that, then the problem is not DP, it's your expectations that are lacking. Or maybe you could program an app to do what you want, although I don't think so...

[James Steele]

I guess I'm not at a point where I really need to do ATMOS for the binaural experience. Again, it may be really cool, but I don't think think it's been driven by consumer demand. It's still something being pushed on consumers by Apple, Dolby, etc.

Until this thread, I’ve had no interest in ATMOS at all. I’ve heard it in movie theaters but, with a few exceptions have not felt that it enhanced my theater experience at all.

I looked at the YouTube video example Michael posted earlier and it seemed interesting. I admit it would be cool if MOTU built this in. For me, it seems like a novelty. But, if the industry starts gatekeeping and ATMOS files become required to submit music for iTunes, etc. then one might be forced to suck it up. I can see it potentially stopping many less "successful" independent artists dead in their tracks. There have been rumors that you can't make it onto a "playlist" without an ATMOS mix, but I don't know. I've heard it's created a cottage industry of people who just take your existing projects and spit out an ATMOS mix for you. Oh well.

So, yesterday, I was downloading a Joni Mitchell box set (Archives the Asylum Years) and found that it included ATMOS mixes of four albums including a couple favorites: For the Roses and Court and Spark. Ok, I guess it’s to don some headphones and see what the fuss is about.

Let me know. I honestly feel that if I were to hear it, I would initially be impressed by the difference and novelty, but at the end of the day, for just listening to music, stereo would be fine for me. I think you may need special earbuds that are designed to reproduce spatial audio? And that basically the main thing is head tracking... so you move your head around and you get a sense of directionality? I know I hate this feature in my iPhone and my AirPod 4s. Distracting to be watching a video podcast on my iPhone and I turn my head to the right and the sound moves to my left ear. Oooooh! Neato! But pointless in that context. Not just pointless... annoying.

All I know is I will have to sit on the sidelines until the day comes where I'm forced to adopt this standard. I'll say it again: it does feel like it's being pushed from the top down with the industry attempting to create a demand and force it on consumers who are largely apathetic. Sigh.

[James Steele]

Then do it, but don't expect to start a mass migration from this forum (or perhaps you're looking for a crying circle?)...

Let's try to keep it civil here, I don't think that's what motivated this post and I can tell you that from time to time many of us have to re-evaluate the tools we are using and whether or not they are best suited for our individual needs.

I think my bonafides as a DP advocate are obvious, yet I myself, on this very forum, was expressing my own concerns about DP continuing to meet my own needs due to issues I was experiencing with the Hardware Insert plug-in (thwarting my efforts to seamlessly incorporate analog outboard gear) as well as problems with EUCON support (also thwarting my desire to adopt a work flow allowing me to take advantage of my Avid S3).

Fortunately, in my case, MOTU largely addressed these issues. They outright FIXED the Hardware Insert plugin in DP 11.34 and have made major improvements with EUCON support. In the case of the latter, it required some changes by Avid as well.

Anyway, all DAWs have strengths and weaknesses and it's fair to hold any of them up for scrutiny. My big concern regarding DP is that MOTU is still a privately owned corporation and its competition all have some pretty deep pockets. Cubase is Steinberg/Yamaha. Logic is Apple. Pro Tools is Avid. Even Studio One is now Presonus/Fender from what I understand. It seems obvious that all of those companies have more resources to spend on maintaining and developing their DAWs.

[stubbsonic]

I agree with MLC's characterization of DP as "the best DAW for composers" (with MIDI capabilities front of mind). And further that using DP in concert with a proper notation program for actual work with players is a good combo.

The fact that DP provides so many different kinds of workflows for that kind of work is undeniable.

Comments about what is lacking are fair. Comments about what is unstable/unreliable are also fair. Musings about moving on are certainly fine.

I know I'm not alone in wanting MOTU and DP to thrive, grow, evolve and be successful in whatever ways they/it want.

[James Steele]

I know I'm not alone in wanting MOTU and DP to thrive, grow, evolve and be successful in whatever ways they/it want.

Same here! It's only recently that I've come around to the view that shielding MOTU from fair criticism, isn't helping. Hence, I've spoken out fairly recently about certain bugs that have bothered me. Much to my delight, MOTU has addressed them (for the most part).

[BKK-OZ]

Your post would be more accurately be titled: "Looks like it’s time FOR ME to move away from DP"

Then do it, but don't expect to start a mass migration from this forum (or perhaps you're looking for a crying circle?)

Sweet baby jebus MLC, keep your projections to yourself.
How fvcking arrogant and presumptuous can you be, eh?
Just read what I wrote.

For the 10th time…
I know that I need to move away from DP because of its inadequacies in one particular area (spatial audio, distinct and separate from old school simple surround). But I also know that there are a bunch of other things where DP is lagging.

I wanted to know if others are considering the same, and what their thoughts/experiences were/are.

AFAIK, this is a reasonable thing to ask.

Any more personal sledging and you and I are done, ok?