Upgrading from my ancient 8pre FW -- preamp and conversion questions

[mistercoffee66]

I have an 8pre Firewire that is approximately 15 years old.

As I consider what to upgrade to, I'm wondering if I should get a nice 2/4-mic pre interface (like an 828 or 1248) and use my 8pre as extra mic pres over ADAT (limited to 48kHz if I want to use all 8 of them)...

...OR spring for a new model with 8 pres, like the newest 8pre or an 8M.

My question is about the differences between these units in terms of mic pre quality and DA/AD quality. So ancient 8pre FW vs new 8pre vs 828 vs 8m vs 1248.

(I definitely need at least 8 simultaneous pres and not prepared to buy a bunch of external pres at this time)

cheers!

[mikehalloran]

The 8PRE operates in stand-alone mode (not all do). This means that it should work. There may be sync issues if using multiple interfaces but the manual covers that.

As to the quality of the mic pres and converters, they were well regarded back in the day. Whether or not the quality of a 23 year old design (same as used in the 828mkII and 2408mkIII) is an issue for you is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

[Mythh]

I have an 8pre FW and an Ultralite Mk4 (which I think should be pretty comparable to the slightly newer AVB interfaces in terms of preamp and converter quality). I'm by no means an expert, so take this all with a grain of salt, but here's my take: it really depends on your situation and expectations.

For truly demanding professional applications -- with high-end gear at every part of the signal chain, especially mics and monitors, etc. -- it might be worth it to have everything going through the newer, better-spec preamps and converters. Especially if you have mics that need a lot of gain.

But I think for most people, in most setups, there will be very little audible difference between a signal coming from a current-generation interface's onboard pre vs. from the8preFW over ADAT. I usually see MOTU preamps of any generation described as "clean" or "neutral" anyway, so any differences in actual sound at equivalent settings should be minimal. Probably the amount of gain available would be the biggest practical difference.

Quick glance at preamp gain across some of the models mentioned:

• 8preFW: 40db

• 8preUSB: 48db

• 8M: 53db

• 1248, 8preES, and 828es: 63db

• 828 (new): 74db

[mistercoffee66]

Thanks @Mythh!

[mistercoffee66]

Whether or not the quality of a 23 year old design (same as used in the 828mkII and 2408mkIII) is an issue for you is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

Right, this is why I am asking what are the quality differences, not asking if I will be ok with that.

[Phil O]

I can't compare what I have to the old FW 8Pre, but I have an 8Pre-es and a I can say that the audio quality is quite impressive. My go-to pre when I'm looking for pristine uncolored sound is an old Grace Design 201. It's about as close to a wire with gain as it gets. When I put up the 8Pre-es preamps against the grace there a noticeable difference, but I gotta tell you it's very subtle. The Motu preamps in this unit are very clean and quite accurate. Combine them with my pair of Earthworks TC 20s and wow. If you were to decide to go with the newer 8 Pre-es I don't think you would be disappointed, but I really don't know how much of an improvement they are over the original FW unit cuz that may have been quite good to begin with. I don't know if that was any help.

Regarding AD/DA, the current conversion in MOTU stuff is on par with all the other pro stuff out there. You could argue that they don't compare to some of the boutique converters out there, but that's a whole different class. I'm guessing that the conversion is probably better than the original 8 pre's.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

[mikehalloran]

Whether or not the quality of a 23 year old design (same as used in the 828mkII and 2408mkIII) is an issue for you is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

Right, this is why I am asking what are the quality differences, not asking if I will be ok with that.

That's a question that can't really be answered—not enough information.

The 8pre goes to 96K, supports MIDI and SMPTE. The current 828 goes to 192K, supports MIDI but no SMPTE. Preamp gain for both has already been posted but not headroom. Marketing departments want us to hear with our eyes and if you do, that should be enough.

Some of the specs needed to make a thorough A/B comparison have never been published both. Besides Headroom, there's RTL (round trip latency), Jitter, Phase Linearity and a few other specs. Just so you know, current RTL was not possible before chips that appeared in 2019 but CueMix is one of many schemes designed to get around that so is it an issue for you? Heck if we know..

I've come to believe that headroom is the spec that I need to know but that's because of my uses and has nothing to do with whatever it is that you are doing. None of my current interfaces from M•Audio, Mackie, MOTU meet my needs in that regards so I'm testing units from Neumann and Zoom, both of which boast superior performance in that area to see if they do.

It really, really does come down to your uses and your ears.

[mistercoffee66]

Thanks @Phil O!

[mistercoffee66]

@mikehalloran

Again, I'm not asking you what I will "be ok with." I'm asking for preamp and converter differences. If you haven't used the unit I'm talking about and don't know anything beyond published specs, that's fine, you can't help. Don't criticize the question just because you don't have anything to add.

[mistercoffee66]

And again thanks to the folks who have given informed opinions, it's been helpful.

[mikehalloran]

@mikehalloran

Again, I'm not asking you what I will "be ok with." I'm asking for preamp and converter differences. If you haven't used the unit I'm talking about and don't know anything beyond published specs, that's fine, you can't help. Don't criticize the question just because you don't have anything to add.

Uhh… I’m the one who gave you the published specs and differences. If that’s not enough information for you it’s because no one has published it.

Those are the same pres and DACs in the 828mkII that I have owned since 2007 and MOTU had been using in others. Mine sounds good and is perfectly serviceable. It does not meet some of my needs — almost no interfaces do that I can see. I’m hoping that one of the two I bought recently do—but neither has all the functionality of my 828 or the 8PRE.

As I tried to tell you, whether or not that’s good enough depends on your needs, not mine. I am not you. You can’t hear everything with your eyes.

[EMRR]

In 2014 I moved from 24io and 2408mkIII to 16A and Monitor 8, and the newer units really made the older units sound like garbage in comparison. Conversion has improved so much it’s worth moving into the present.
The preamps will not have gotten worse….