Atmos monitoring with two 828es interfaces - possible?

[MartinBaird]

I'm wanting to set up an Atmos system and I'm wondering if I can accomplish this, in an admittedly clunky way, using two 828es interfaces. The 828es Monitor Setup has presets for 5.1 and 7.1. My idea is to set one box to 7.1 to control those monitors, and the other 828es to 5.1 and it will route signals to four ceiling speakers. The clunky work around is that I'll need to adjust two physical Monitor volume knobs and make sure they are always the same. I may be missing something and it won't work, or there may be a better way, or it may be that with some fancy routing I can control both units with one knob (but I don't think that's the case).

I'd love to hear any input or alternatives to this idea.

Thanks very much.

Martin

[PVB]

Hi Martin! When it became apparent about a year and a half ago that an Atmos capable DP12 seemed unlikely to materialize anytime soon I started to look at workarounds. Fiedler Audio’s Dolby Atmos Composer seemed like a possible solution to achieving 7.1.4 in DP11 but there are a couple of gotchas. I remembered that DP11 still supported surround formats up to 10.2 which is not the same layout of course as 7.1.4 but with 12 possible outputs I thought maybe I could reroute the outputs in order to make something work using the Fiedler DAC approach. My setup consists of 3 x RME FireFace 800 8 channel interfaces so a total of 24 i/o. First thing I did was setup a test session. I added a DP11 10.2 Master fader and instantiated DAC’s Dolby Atmos Composer plugin as an insert. Then on a channel I inserted Fiedlers Dolby Atmos Beam plugin. This plugin immediately recognizes and connects with the Dolby Atmos Composer plugin on the 10.2 bus …. hey now I thought, we’re getting somewhere Went into bundles and assigned the first 8 outputs of the 10.2 output to FF 800 #1 and the last 4 outputs to the first 4 outputs of RME FF 800 #2. I did this by dragging outputs 9-12 to the second FF 800 one at a time IIRC. Then routed these 12 outputs to the 12 power amps I use but only channels 1 to 8 were audible on speakers Much head scratching follows by inappropriate for family time expletives. I’ll save the painful details but basically it seems that the DP11 10.2 bundle assignment only will work on a single interface. I had assigned outputs 9-12 as overhead front L&R plus overhead rear L&R. An RME FF800 has 8 dedicated bal line outputs plus stereo phones and SPDIF. So it turned out that DP could recognize all 12 Bundle outputs but would only assign 9-12 to phones and SPIDF of FF800 #1 which is highly inconvenient and frustrating when 16 other channels on my other 2 FF800s were available. At this point I considered taking a chance on spending more bucks on a dedicated 16 or 24 channel i/o interface thinking this would solve the routing issue Then a light bulb went off …
what if I added an inexpensive ADAT optical interface to FF800 #1 …. would DP11 see those outputs as part of the same device? Well it did! Just had to drag outputs 9-12 to ADAT outputs 1-4 in Bundles and voila … 12 channels needed for 7.1.4. Hope you can make this work. It’s a cheap solution as there are lots of 8 channel optical interfaces around although I bet the Steinberg one which RME built for them would be my best choice as it has the exact same output specs as my FireWire 800 units. Still I’m sure any will work. Hope you get up and running and that DP12 is just around the corner

[PVB]

Addendum to my first post. A DP11 10.2 Bundle output by itself can be assigned across 2 RME FF800 interfaces however when I instantiated Fiedler DAC Composer in the 10.2 Master channel the 12 outputs could then only be assigned to a single FF800 interface. Fiedler didn’t have a solution.

[MartinBaird]

PVB,

That's a fascinating read. Thanks for your input and I'm glad you got a workable solution.

I think my issue is with the 828es units I have, and me wanting to control the volume of a 7.1.4 system with the one Monitor control knob on one 828es. The MOTU Pro Audio Control software only has three choices for the monitor section: stereo, 5.1. and 7.1. So it seems that even if I buy an Arturia X8 Out box to connect to the 828es optical outs, I still won't be able to control all the speakers at once. A firmware update could fix this but I'm assuming that will never happen.

Thanks again for your help.

Martin

[James Steele]

I think my issue is with the 828es units I have, and me wanting to control the volume of a 7.1.4 system with the one Monitor control knob on one 828es. The MOTU Pro Audio Control software only has three choices for the monitor section: stereo, 5.1. and 7.1. So it seems that even if I buy an Arturia X8 Out box to connect to the 828es optical outs, I still won't be able to control all the speakers at once. A firmware update could fix this but I'm assuming that will never happen.

I wonder if it's possible to configure a software monitoring solution to allow you to control the volume all at once. I know that you don't necessarily want to control volume by moving a dial on a computer display, but maybe some can be controlled by MIDI controller messages perhaps.

I went looking for Ginger Audio's "Room" software, but looks like it's replaced by Sphere which might be more applicable:
https://www.gingeraudio.com/sphere-imme ... controller

Also, Sonnox makes something called ListenHub, but it appears that's just for stereo:
https://sonnox.com/products/listenhub

[tremo]

I've been running a 7.1.4 system using an 828es for about a year. L-C-R + LFE from 828es outputs, then sides, rears and heights from a Behringer ADA8200 (fed by one of the 828es's ADAT outs). Room correction by Sonarworks Multichannel. Works great! But you are correct that you can't use the 828's physical Monitor control as an overall volume control.

As James said, a good way to do this is by using a software monitoring solution. I use Ginger Audio Sphere, and again, it works perfectly (and does a lot more than just simple level control). I run Sonarworks Multichannel as a plugin on one of Sphere's outputs. It's invaluable for "deconstructing" Atmos mixes from Apple Music (or Tidal, etc.), because it lets you solo/mute individual monitors or groups. Want to hear only what's in the rears? Click the solo for that group. I use an Elgato Stream Deck, and Ginger Audio provides a config file that lets you do all your soloing with physical buttons.

You can also map the master volume control to a physical controller -- maybe a Stream Deck that has knobs in addition to buttons? My Stream Deck has only buttons, so I purchased a little box with one big knob that sends MIDI controller data, and mapped that to Sphere. Got it from this builder on Etsy:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1593414562 ... r-usb-MIDI

[MartinBaird]

James & Tremo,

Thanks you!! Excellent info that I will look into. Appreciate your help.

Martin

[James Steele]

You can also map the master volume control to a physical controller -- maybe a Stream Deck that has knobs in addition to buttons? My Stream Deck has only buttons, so I purchased a little box with one big knob that sends MIDI controller data, and mapped that to Sphere. Got it from this builder on Etsy:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1593414562 ... r-usb-MIDI

That's a cool little piece! I know El Gato recently released a stream deck that does have some rotary knobs on it? But very cool that Sphere can have a controller surface assigned to it.