MILAN integration for MOTU AVB

[mruebsam]

Dear Motu,
I was so excited a couple of years ago, when you released AVB hardware. I thought this is the way to go. Unfortunately it became quite obviously that AVB was not enough standardized to smoothly integrate devices from different companies. For example it is impossible to get RME AVB and MOTU devices work together... What a pain.
In the meantime there is a development of a new sub standard within AVB called MILAN. A lot of professional audio companies and apple itself are jumping on this (Meyer Sound, L-accoustic, RME, D&B, Apple, etc.) I think It would be fantastic and would give this Initiative a big bump, if MOTU would implement these developments...
P l e a s e

[EMRR]

It would be great to see more interoperability.

[HCMarkus]

Dear Motu,..

You probably know this, but MOTUNation is independent and not affiliated with MOTU. Might want to make a suggestion to them directly at

https://motu.com/en-us/suggestions

[James Steele]

I'm wondering... is it MILAN or MLAN?

[mruebsam]

It's MILAN:)

[mruebsam]

Dear Motu,..

You probably know this, but MOTUNation is independent and not affiliated with MOTU. Might want to make a suggestion to them directly at

https://motu.com/en-us/suggestions

Thank you... I just did

[PhireAlly]

Hi All,

Quick FYI ...
The (2025) MOTU 16A can "talk" to MILAN compatible AVB devices via the newer AAF-PCM stream format.

Older MOTU AVB devices are NOT compatible with MILAN as they use the "legacy" AM8-24 stream format.

Blessings,
PhireAlly

[PinkLine]

The (2025) MOTU 16A can "talk" to MILAN compatible AVB devices via the newer AAF-PCM stream format.

Older MOTU AVB devices are NOT compatible with MILAN as they use the "legacy" AM8-24 stream format.

Thanks.

My first question is whether the older MOTU AVB device chipsets support the AAF-PCM stream format, such that AAF-PCM or AM8-24 could be offered as a user selection via a firmware update.

My second question is whether the 2025 MOTU 16A (or some other device) could be used as a bridge between an AM8-24 network and an AAF-PCM network. I see the new 16A allows selection of AAF or AMB-24 per stream.

Finally, does the MOTU AVB switch work with both AAF and AM8-24 streams? My guess is it would, assuming the streaming format is at a lower layer in the network stack. Still, MOTU's web page for the new 16A doesn't specify compatibility with the MOTU AVB switch. Also, the MILAN protocol was introduced in 2018, and the most recent firmware for the MOTU AVB Switch was 2017.

[PhireAlly]

My first question is whether the older MOTU AVB device chipsets support the AAF-PCM stream format, such that AAF-PCM or AMB-24 could be offered as a user selection via a firmware update.

Unfortunately No.
The older MOTU AVB devices can only support the "legacy" AM8-24 stream format, which is not compatible with MILAN.

My second question is whether the 2025 MOTU 16A (or some other device) could be used as a bridge between an AMB-24 network and an AAF-PCM network. I see the new 16A allows selection of AAF or AMB-24 per stream.

Fortunately Yes.
The (2025) 16A is designed to be that "bridge" between the old AM8-24 stream formats and the newer AAF-PCM stream formats.
As a result, the (2025) 16A can be integrated into a network that has MILAN certified devices.

does the MOTU AVB switch work with both AAF and AMB-24 streams

It should.
My understanding is,... AVB certified switches can accept and pass along any type of AVB stream format on the network.

Lastly, as of now (April 2025)
MOTU is not yet a member of the AVNU Alliance so its products cannot be MILAN certified, but that doesn't prevent them from implementing aspects of the MILAN spec, It's still all AVB.

PreSonus is a member of AVNU but none of its current AVB products are MILAN certified.
My guess is because those products all use the AM8-24 stream format.

RME currently has eight MILAN certified products.

AVID currently has one (for the VENUE console).

NETGEAR is working on MILAN certification for their M4250 Series Switches.


Hope this helps,
PhireAlly

[PhireAlly]

I'm wondering... is it MILAN or MLAN?

MILAN = Media Integrated Local Area Network
Based on AVB
Created by the AVNU Alliance (A consortium of Pro AV companies).


mLAN = Music Local Area Network
Based on FireWire
Created by Yamaha.


Just some general info for the community,
PhireAlly

[PinkLine]

Thanks for your reply. Regarding AAF-PCM vs AM8-24:

My first question is whether the older MOTU AVB device chipsets support the AAF-PCM stream format, such that AAF-PCM or AM8-24 could be offered as a user selection via a firmware update.

Unfortunately No.
The older MOTU AVB devices can only support the "legacy" AM8-24 stream format, which is not compatible with MILAN.

I am aware that as configured the older AVB units only support AM8-24. My question was more at the hardware level: did MOTU use a 3rd party ethernet/AVB controller microchip in these units to implement AVB, or did they implement AVB streaming on their own, for example using an FPGA? The AVB AAF streaming format pre-dates MILAN, the Avnu Alliance, and MOTU's first AVB products. If MOTU used a 3rd party ethernet/AVB controller microchip, and that microchip supports AAF streams, changing stream formats may be possible by configuring the hardware registers in the microchip via a firmware update.

FWIW, I spent 9 years as an embedded systems development engineer for Cisco Systems (telecommunications routers) before moving to the dark side (patent law). So I realize adding AAF-PCM capability to the older AVB units would entail much more than flipping a few bits on microcontroller registers. I'm just wondering if such a change is even possible (let alone a worthwhile financial endeavor for MOTU and S&S Research).

[PhireAlly]

My Bad,
I misunderstood your query.

That’s a tough one to answer as I haven’t seen any documentation as to how MOTU implements AVB in their devices.

XILINX (AVNU co founder) now AMD, has some documentation of how they use their FPGA’s in AVB designs.

RME uses firmware updates to modify their AVB devices for certain compatibility requirements.

So maybe it’s possible for MOTU but they’re pretty tight lipped about it.

PhireAlly