Anybody else using a NAS with DP?

[Jim]

I'm not able to save over an existing DP Project file when using my QNAP NAS as the media drive.

I just noticed I filed a Support Ticket with MOTU about this in 2020, using DP 9 and a 2018 Mac Mini. They replied, advising me to try installing DP 10. I did that, but it didn't resolve the issue. I reported back to MOTU, and they ghosted me.

I've just tried using DP with my NAS again with more current software (DP 11.33) and a new Mac Mini M4, and the issue persists.

I can save over existing files in other apps to the NAS, just not in DP. I'm wondering what the problem is.

[Jim]

I also can't record audio to the NAS. I get the error in the attachment.

I've put in an order for a two NVRAM RAID 0 enclosure to use as a working media drive for DP. That should solve the issues of not over-writing existing files, and recording audio.

I'm not happy to have to spend hundreds to work around a bug that's been in DP for over four years, maybe always.

[Jim]

I seem to be talking to myself on this conversation. I have more to add:

I tried mounting my SAS RAID drive over 10G ethernet, and getting 500 MB/S read and write speeds, and still getting the audio-drop outs when playing certain DP sequences. I also can't Save over an existing DP file. This eliminates the NAS or a shared disk as the issue, and strongly points to a bug in DP.

[James Steele]

I just noticed I filed a Support Ticket with MOTU about this in 2020, using DP 9 and a 2018 Mac Mini. They replied, advising me to try installing DP 10. I did that, but it didn't resolve the issue. I reported back to MOTU, and they ghosted me.

Might be that not too many users are using that kind of setup... at least to explain why not too many people have stepped up to offer advice here. Perhaps create a new ticket with MOTU and see if you get a better response this time? Wish I had a better suggestion.

[HCMarkus]

I just noticed I filed a Support Ticket with MOTU about this in 2020, using DP 9 and a 2018 Mac Mini. They replied, advising me to try installing DP 10. I did that, but it didn't resolve the issue. I reported back to MOTU, and they ghosted me.

Might be that not too many users are using that kind of setup... at least to explain why not too many people have stepped up to offer advice here. Perhaps create a new ticket with MOTU and see if you get a better response this time? Wish I had a better suggestion.

Yes; I'm just using Internal and TB-connected NVMe, plus backup USB3 SATA SSD and Hard Drives.

No experience to share that would be instructive. Hope you can get it sorted.

[Jim]

Perhaps create a new ticket with MOTU and see if you get a better response this time? Wish I had a better suggestion.

Thank you. I tried that, James, with two browsers (Firefox and Safari), and the process hung on "Submit," and does not appear on my list of Support issues.

I sent a message to their other Contact portal three days ago to see if I could email them directly, and I haven't gotten a reply.

[Jim]

I went to the Support Tickets area of MOTU, and noted I first reported this issue in Mar. 2020. The reply was to try upgrading from DP 9 to DP 10. I reported back that didn't fix the issue. Then I got radio silence for four years.

Around December 2024, I got a message from MOTU asking me to resubmit my issue. I've explained to you here how Submit is hanging the site. But, I AM able to comment on my initial support ticket from 2020. I did that in December, and told them the issue has persisted for four years, over three versions of DP. More radio silence.

I just updated the ticket again. I told them if they're stumped, there's no shame in admitting it.

Is there any fraternity among developers? Adobe and BMD's products don't have these issues working from a NAS, and you can bet your bippy that Avid doesn't either, given their domination in shared work environments.

Seems like the MOTU engineers could reach out and try to learn why DP has an issue other media app developers don't.

James, you are probably right about so few DP users using NAS that this issue isn't a priority.

[HCMarkus]

Due to real-time streaming data requirements, I wouldn't want to use network attached storage as my DAW Project drive, but it is very good for backups, for sure.

In my case, I use USB-connected hard drives for backup and archive, as BackBlaze will not support NAS, likely due to BB's approach of "unlimited one-computer data backup" and the fact an NAS can and typically does support multiple computers.

[mikehalloran]

getting 500 MB/S read and write speeds

That's the limit of USB 3.0 and SATA III SSDs — plenty fast enough for 100+ tracks of audio with 2—4 plug-ins per track. Speed ain't the problem.

Although I'm smack dab in the center of the Silicon Valley, my fastest internet is 18% that over copper, the only thing available where I live. One of my collaborators has access via DirecTV, 1% of what you have (an upgrade from the dial-up that they had before!). Speed is not your problem.

I collaborate with others by hosting DP, PL and Premiere projects in Dropbox; Logic/Final Cut Pro are in iCloud.

You've never told us how your drive is formatted nor what your permissions look like. It may also be how DP is installed on your system.

Although I have three NAS boxes, I have never set any up for hosting DP. I've begun reorganizing my network by running Ethernet to a new corner of my house and this may free up one of those boxes. If so, I'll try to see what happens when I install a test project but I don't see that happening for another few weeks.

[HCMarkus]

getting 500 MB/S read and write speeds

That's the limit of USB 3.0 and SATA III SSDs — plenty fast enough for 100+ tracks of audio with 2—4 plug-ins per track. Speed ain't the problem.

What about access time? I guess a DAW is not as demanding as VIs calling for their sample data.

[mikehalloran]

getting 500 MB/S read and write speeds

That's the limit of USB 3.0 and SATA III SSDs — plenty fast enough for 100+ tracks of audio with 2—4 plug-ins per track. Speed ain't the problem.

What about access time? I guess a DAW is not as demanding as VIs calling for their sample data.

That should never be an issue since SATA I with the G5. It was 10x–15x faster than ATA in the G4 and earlier. The bad old days when we worried about multi-threading and all that on our G4/3 and slower systems… don't miss that.

The OP has not addressed any of my concerns. I'm wondering if, perhaps he tried to install DP on the NAS box like a CITRIX server. The macOS doesn't like that except for certain apps under certain conditions. I cracked that nut for Windows apps at a company where I was working 25+ years ago. I'll spare everyone the link to documentation I wrote in 1998 or so (still online).

[Jim]

I got a message yesterday from Matt at MOTU support. He acknowledged the issue, and that it was low priority, but they did plan on investigating a fix.

Again, the issue isn't the NAS, which I didn't catch when I titled this thread. I get the errors trying to Save or record to any networked drive over ethernet.

I thought I answered the disk format question: either APFS or Mac OS Extended. Get Info reports SMB when they are mounted over the network. Permissions: Everybody / Read and Write and Ignore Ownership.

The most telling bit of evidence, I think, is that I don't get similar errors when saving over existing files with BMD or Adobe apps. It's a DP thing.

As to the access time that Mark brought up, that well could be a factor in simultaneous playback and recording. I think that could be addressed in theory by buffering.

I'm pretty sure Avid / ProTools has figured this out, but last I was in the Avid loop, they were using fiber channel for video editing, which was mandatory for multiple streams of uncompressed video.

Premiere has also implemented workgroups which use shared storage. I've only had experience with workgroups and shared fiber channel servers when working with video in post-production houses, and never did simultaneous recording and playback.

[mikehalloran]

either APFS or Mac OS Extended.

If being accessed by Macs after Mojave, should be APFS

I get the errors trying to Save or record to any networked drive over ethernet.

I do not.

[Jim]

either APFS or Mac OS Extended.

If being accessed by Macs after Mojave, should be APFS

See attachment. This isn't from my NAS, but a shared RAID to show how the disk format looks when viewed locally or remotely.

I highlighted that Format field. Get Info on the same RAID:
- left side viewed on a computer on which the RAID is shared and mounted. Over ethernet, the format is SMB.
- right side is from the computer on which the disk is attached by TB2. Format is Mac OS Extended.

I don't think I can change the formatting now without completely erasing the RAID.

I get the errors trying to Save or record to any networked drive over ethernet.

I do not.

That's interesting. I've gotten the same errors on three different computers.

[Michael Canavan]

Right away, the permissions are different when you mount the drive via ethernet, only "jamescurtis(me)" have access, it could be that DP is being refused access. It's worth investigating for sure, but "everyone" likely includes the application Digital Performer.