M4 Mini Announced and Available Now

[HCMarkus]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/am ... e.2441219/

...and it is out:

https://www.apple.com

[mikehalloran]

Nice! Even the base model supports up to 3 monitors. 3x Thunderbolt 5 ports on the M4 Pro (3x TB4 on the M4) plus 2x USB 3.2 gen2 (old name USB 3.1). N

No USB A ports but all of the TB/USB-C ports on my Studio are backward compatible with USB 2/1.1. Apple is using USB 4/4.2 specs and not the Intel/Thunderbolt specs that restrict backward compatibility.

Fully loaded (M4Pro, 14CPU/20GPU 64GB RAM, 8TB storage, 10GB Ethernet), it's $4,699.00 ($4,269.00 in the EDU Store where I buy) without keyboard, mouse, trackpad or monitor(s).

The most powerful Mini in the Refurb Store at the moment is this M2Pro 12CPU/19GPU, 16GB RAM, 8TB storage, 10GB Ethernet) at $3,479.00. It's certainly powerful enough for any audio workstation. It can also support 3 monitors. IMO, that new M4 Pro is the better buy but this will certainly get the job done, ya know?

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/G170 ... b-ethernet

I paid $6,629 for my Studio (M2 Ultra, 24CPU/60GPU 192GB RAM, 8TB storage, 10GB Ethernet) in the Refurb Store a year ago. I don't regret not having waited a year but had this M4 Mini been available then, I probably would have gone with it. I would need a nice TB5 hub as the new machine doesn't have as many ports as I use.

It would be nice to see a less expensive display that supports Apple's Center Stage. I've grown to really like that feature. As I slouch in my office chair during Zoom calls, it makes me look upright and alert.

[mhschmieder]

I didn't think I was in the market, especially as I had planned to switch to Windows next year, but I had to rebuild my 2017 iMac from scratch the past few days as it stopped letting me get past the login screen or boot into Recovery Mode or do anything else using my actual computer skills, so I had to pay $178 to Best Buy Geek Squad to start with a clean slate and then use Time Machine and manual reinstalls to get back to where I was.

The warning signs have been there for some time, so I plan to switch computers ASAP if possible, but no later than Spring 2025 (and that's a stretch as I consider myself to be at super high risk at the moment).

After a fresh comparison of macOS vs. Windows for music production, I concluded that even though RME's benchmarks show ASIO to be roughly 25% better latency-wise than Core Audio (they didn't compare digital jitter), and though the two OS's have way fewer technical differences than when I started with computer music production around 2002 or 2003, the new Apple Silicon chips are apparently hard to beat when it comes to DSP, so I'll stick with Apple for music production even if I also buy a Dell PC for everything else.

I can't tell if I need the M4 Pro or not. Or if I still need 64 GB of RAM as with my 2017 27" iMac. I have a 2 TB drive and am a bit over 1 TB but could probably find more fluff to delete or push to external drives (hard with some vendors who require all support files to be on the main drive). I'm used to doing RAM and other upgrades myself, but don't want to regret not upgrading the core specs enough on an M4 Mac Mini.

Monitor-wise, my canvas of what is out there was shocking as the best I could find is identical to what my 27" 2017 iMac has! The Samsung versions seems slightly superior and cheaper and can be had for $650 as a refurb from Amazon, but some people say it isn't much of a sacrifice to downgrade from 5K to 4K and go with a moderately high-end Dell 27" monitor for a bit under $400. Those can rotate to portrait mode for more visible code when programming.

The new iMac models are no better than the new Mac Minis, and the Mac Studio won't get upgraded until MAR or JUN next year, which would be a risky waiting period as it seems Macs die at the seven year mark (this is my third one to increasingly have near-fatal problems in the seventh year of ownership).

It looks like what Apple is doing is consolidating the chip and other specs and just offering different form factors. If people are doing more on their phones and maybe tablets, it makes sense as a cost-cutting measure to reduce the differences and share more motherboard designs, and it also makes it easier to decide which form factor to buy on those qualities alone and also when to upgrade.

[mikehalloran]

Having a pair of LG 4K monitors flanking my 27" Studio display... let's just say that I can definitely see the difference but the 4Ks are not bad at all. All can rotate into Portrait mode but the Studio Display changes orientation automatically. I really like the Center Stage camera but I could live without it, I suppose—glad I sprung for it, however.

The main reasons to consider the M4 Pro are TB5 ports and the availability of 64GB Integrated RAM. Unless doing some heavy duty AV, should be enough for anyone. OWC has announced TB5 docks already — with the lack of ports compared to the Studio, plan on getting one.

A lot of testing is putting the Mini M4 Pro on par with the M2 Studio Pro or even the Ultra. I could have saved money by waiting a year but there's no way that my 18 core iMac Pro would still be worth $3K used so it's closer to a wash than it appeared at first. I do like the way that 60 core GPU crunches video...

[mhschmieder]

Thanks, Mike. It is hard to find detailed specs on stuff these days compared to pre-COVID; the web is becoming a wasteland of unmaintained websites and scarce updates as well as abandoned sites, and I didn't have the time yet to look elsewhere such as B&H Photo Video, where there tend to be deeper specs. Anyway, the point being, that I did not see the ability of the 27" G5 monitor to swivel to portrait mode. Hopefully the Samsung version does as well (it is not a listed spec).

I checked OWC's site two days ago, which must have been premature as they didn't yet have compatible stuff listed. I'll check again sometime in the next few days, to take a full canvas of what the interconnection pipeline would look like.

[bayswater]

After a fresh comparison of macOS vs. Windows for music production, I concluded that even though RME's benchmarks show ASIO to be roughly 25% better latency-wise than Core Audio (they didn't compare digital jitter), and though the two OS's have way fewer technical differences than when I started with computer music production around 2002 or 2003, the new Apple Silicon chips are apparently hard to beat when it comes to DSP, so I'll stick with Apple for music production even if I also buy a Dell PC for everything else.

Also looking at the new M4 Minis, but I haven’t abandoned a possible switch to Windows. The announcements from MS on improved support for audio and MIDI, and the attempts by some DAWs to improve compatibility with alternate CPUs have yet to play out.

[mikehalloran]

I should have been more clear. A VESA mount will rotate any display. Setting orientation from Landscape to Portrait is in the Display settings of the macOS. If others follow LG’s example, removing the stand takes about a second—slide a tab and it’s off exposing the 4 threaded holes. All VESA mounts include bolts and washers to connect anything with the four bolt

With the stand options so damned expensive, I don’t understand why anyone would order the Studio Display any other way than the VESA version. Mine is being held up by a $30 stand—in fact, all three of mine are.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BY ... title?th=1

Although LG makes the 27” Studio Display, their own 5K monitors do not offer the same camera and speakers (not that any of us would be using the speakers, right?).

Good USB cameras are readily available, of course, and I have a nice one on a shelf but I wound up using the built-ins on my iMac Pro and MBP for my Zoom calls — just easier. Now that I know how to turn Center Stage On and Off on Zoom calls, it’s pretty nice. I don’t think there’s a 3rd party Center Stage camera — gotta buy a Studio Display, iMac or laptop that has it or use a late model iPad or iPhone.
https://appleinsider.com/inside/ipad/t ... nter-stage

[HCMarkus]

I love my big screen TV display. Very cost-effective and HDMI is now pretty much universal. 4k is perfect for me, and my clients can see what's going on as I work, which is (usually) a good thing. 75" for $700. 43" TV are under $300 now. I don't do critical photo work, but the display looks pretty darn great, to my eyes anyway. The Sonoma screen saver looks absolutely glorious!

As far as going to PC... sure, if one knows the OS well enough. Personally, that's a set of variables I'd rather avoid, and with the new Macs being so powerful and pretty affordable, I'd think long and hard before making that leap. Prior to the introduction of Apple Silicon, I was contemplating just such a move. The Mac Pro was way too costly, and performance easily replicable with a much cheaper PC.

But Apple's SOCs broke from the gate so strongly, I needn't have worried. My experiences with Apple Silicon have been very positive, desktop and laptop. And if laptop is the desired form factor, there is really no comparable alternative. If the M4 Minis (or even the M1 Pro Minis) had been available when I put my money down on an M1 Mac Studio, the Mini would have been my choice. No regrets with my purchase, as it has served me well for 2.5 years, but a very capable system can now be had for fewer dollars.

[bayswater]

As far as going to PC... sure, if one knows the OS well enough. Personally, that's a set of variables I'd rather avoid, and with the new Macs being so powerful and pretty affordable, I'd think long and hard before making that leap.

I had a fairly decent PC for free on a loan and set DP up on it. Once in DP, it didn’t really make much difference. The main clue that it wasn’t a Mac was the strangely huge menu bar.

When I got the current Mini, I didn’t find, as is generally claimed, that I was going to save much money by moving to Windows at the time, and I’d lose access to a few things I use regularly.

Perhaps when the time comes I’ll find that Windows has evolved much the same as macOS with all its warts.

What I really want is an Atari OS update.

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[dix]

Nice! Even the base model supports up to 3 monitors.

Same for the maxed out models too, yes? My workflow is organized around four displays. Unfortunately, I don't think any of these new Mac Minis can do that.

[mhschmieder]

I see that Splashtop (for remote login to the office when working after hours), Eclipse IDE (my personal publicly-published GitHub code libraries have not yet been ported to IntelliJ, which I now use for most development work), and the browser, are the biggest memory hogs and constitute a fairly large chunk of the 25 GB in use when that's all that is running aside from Apple Mail (which is very low on the memory scale), and there is an additional 8 GB of use from cached files.

I don't even have any audio apps running. I'll check Activity Monitor once I do, but I close almost everything else when I am working on audio, though some vendors then annoy me by requiring me to phone home via the web browser (VSL is the worst culprit in this regard) after I just closed everything to free up resources.

My guess is that I need at least 48 GB of RAM. I'll compare specs again; this might force me to the M4 Pro based model, but maybe it's better to be ready for the long haul of ownership of the next Mac purchase by already having TB5 support even if I can't take immediate advantage of it.

As for monitors, some have recommended a $900 27" 5K monitor from Asus, but I haven't yet researched its quality or reliability. I do hear mixed reports about the Samsung, which presumably is manufactured by LG as is Apple's version, but even the two or three companies that do actual manufacturing of computer monitors often have models in their lineup that are OEM from one of the other core manufacturers. I seem to recall NEC, maybe LG, and Eizo, are the only suppliers.

[mhschmieder]

https://www.parkablogs.com/content/revi ... 5k-display

Interesting note from a review on the brand-new Asus 27" 5K monitor:

"5K on a 27-inch display is a great combination for Mac users since MacOS has problems with UI scaling for certain resolution and size combo, e.g. 4K 27-inch."

At $800 and superior specs, this is probably the best match for the new Mac Mini. The LG 27" model is discontinued and the Samsung is said to have coil whine.

[HCMarkus]

5k of pixels on a 27" display would be pretty much wasted on me. Even wearing glasses.

[mikehalloran]

Nice! Even the base model supports up to 3 monitors.

Same for the maxed out models too, yes? My workflow is organized around four displays. Unfortunately, I don't think any of these new Mac Minis can do that.

The only way I know is to buy a DisplayLink box. These are eGPUs over USB. There are a number of manufacturers—DisplayLink does not make any of them directly. DL regularly updates its drivers as Apple and Microsoft zig and zag and those updates are free—once registered, you get email alerts. Look for language such as “uses the free DisplayLink drivers”

Most are single boxes in the $50 range with USB 3 in/HDMI out but hubs are available, too, such as this one.
https://www.amazon.com/DisplayLink-Doc ... ref=sr_1_5

The one that I bought for my 2010 iMac long ago no longer works (incompatible with newer drivers?) but the current ones do. High Sierra 10.13.4–6 crippled all non-Thunderbolt eGPU including DisplayLink; Mojave brought it back. I still keep a copy of macOS 10.13.3 for people with old Macs who need their DL boxes to work.

[dix]

The only way I know is to buy a DisplayLink box. These are eGPUs over USB

Very cool. My fourth display is usually just for metering, so 100% reliability isn’t always needed. This might work fine for what I need. Thanks, Mike!