Digital Performer 11.33 version

[HCMarkus]

DP has been extremely solid for me of late. OTOH, "Stable" Logic has locked up a lot more in the few times I've used it. I won't insist that there was no user error on my part, but.... this is one reason I have been frustrated. It is one thing when software you know misbehaves. You recognize the issue and resolve/restart. But, when unfamiliar software acts up, the inexperienced user doesn't know if it is the software or user's fault.

I've been super happy with DP since moving to Apple Silicon. That said, I understand others may have different experiences and perspectives.

[Michael Canavan]

DP has been extremely solid for me of late. OTOH, "Stable" Logic has locked up a lot more in the few times I've used it. I won't insist that there was no user error on my part, but.... this is one reason I have been frustrated. It is one thing when software you know misbehaves. You recognize the issue and resolve/restart. But, when unfamiliar software acts up, the inexperienced user doesn't know if it is the software or user's fault.

I've been super happy with DP since moving to Apple Silicon. That said, I understand others may have different experiences and perspectives.

Out of curiosity do you stick with the AU format? I've got a few VSTi's that work in VST3 better, and a few that are only VST2. VST3 is by far the least likely format to pass DP's evaluation process, so I really only use it for VSTi MIDI out plugins, like Thesis, Reason Rack, and of course Melodyne.

[monkey man]

James, thank you for your comprehensive reply mate.

[corbo-billy]

This new version does not overwrite version 11.32 _

Now, we know that it is the update installer that takes care of this procedure _

[Guitar Gaz]

I switched to Presonus Studio One years ago but still use DP for some tasks and older songs. But in Studio One it all works well - better choice than Cubase or Logic.

[nk_e]

It is indeed a dark day for MOTU if the founder of Motunation is this frustrated. From your lips to their ears…

I started with DP with version 2.6 almost 25 years ago. Sadly, I’ve pretty much stopped using DP for new projects a few years back as other DAWs have eclipsed it in areas that are important for me. I’ve kept current though in the hopes that MOTU would address workflow, infrastructure, and UI/UX issues (some of which you described). Not sure how much longer I’m willing to do that.

As long as you are thinking about back up plans, can I suggest you download LUNA from UAD and give it a go? It doesn’t require UAD Apollo hardware anymore. It’s well designed, intuitive, and has a really pleasant workflow. It is only at version 1.72 and doesn’t have a lot of bells and whistles like chord tracks or clip launchers, but what is there is really solid. And it has a wonderful UI/UX. It’s a pleasure to work in. Oh yeah: it’s free for goodness sake!

Depending on the complexity of your productions, it might fit the bill nicely.

https://www.uaudio.com/luna.html

[James Steele]

As long as you are thinking about back up plans, can I suggest you download LUNA from UAD and give it a go?

No EUCON support at all *and* no hardware insert plug-in.

[nk_e]

Aaach! Bummer about the Eucon support.

I use outboard gear (efx and synths) all the time. It’s built into the channel strip. No plugin required.

[HCMarkus]

Out of curiosity do you stick with the AU format? I've got a few VSTi's that work in VST3 better, and a few that are only VST2. VST3 is by far the least likely format to pass DP's evaluation process, so I really only use it for VSTi MIDI out plugins, like Thesis, Reason Rack, and of course Melodyne.

I run exactly three VST3 plugins: Melodyne, VocAlign and Arturia's Vocoder. Everything else is AU. All plugins are Apple Silicon Native.

[James Steele]

Aaach! Bummer about the Eucon support.

I use outboard gear (efx and synths) all the time. It’s built into the channel strip. No plugin required.

Hmmm... I stand corrected. Why is it that I see people complaining on the UA Forum that Luna doesn't support outboard hardware?

Still... the main issue for me is that I want to be able to use the many powerful features available with EUCON, which is one of the two issues that has me so frustrated with DP right now. Luna does support Mackie protocol I believe, but the EUCON Mackie emulation has issues in a number of DAWs. It's also half-baked in Studio One... allows for no banking.

[James Steele]

I've been super happy with DP since moving to Apple Silicon. That said, I understand others may have different experiences and perspectives.

Well... I suppose if I didn't want to use the used Avid S3 that I spent $2K on, or the outboard analog hardware that I've sunk almost $3k into, I'd be super happy, too.

[EMRR]

Hardware inserts is a big deal, it's becoming more and more expected now that conversion is 'good enough' to withstand the trip out and back. I can't see how this is hard to fix.

I jumped from 8 to 11, so I can't speak to 9-10, but man.....8 was far more stable. I did a full purge and rebuild of 11 recently on both systems and it fixed nothing, have never felt the need to explore that with previous versions.

I've been increasingly in PT due to a few project needs, it sure is solid in a lot of ways. The dealbreakers for me there are the lack of sequences within a project and the lack of mix versioning. No idea if any other DAW has those things. So many other things are more streamlined in PT, though I feel it requires many many more shortcut keys to use as I use DP - more efficient if you know them, very painful if you don't.

So many ways to skin the cat.....

[James Steele]

Hardware inserts is a big deal, it's becoming more and more expected now that conversion is 'good enough' to withstand the trip out and back. I can't see how this is hard to fix.

I jumped from 8 to 11, so I can't speak to 9-10, but man.....8 was far more stable. I did a full purge and rebuild of 11 recently on both systems and it fixed nothing, have never felt the need to explore that with previous versions.

I've been increasingly in PT due to a few project needs, it sure is solid in a lot of ways. The dealbreakers for me there are the lack of sequences within a project and the lack of mix versioning. No idea if any other DAW has those things. So many other things are more streamlined in PT, though I feel it requires many many more shortcut keys to use as I use DP - more efficient if you know them, very painful if you don't.

So many ways to skin the cat.....

Mix versioning is a good point.

[Michael Canavan]

I think one thing that happens with dinosaur DAWs in general is there's this feeling like they should all excel at all aspects of music, whether it's audio editing, MIDI, step sequencing, control surface support, UX, movie scoring, Ableton style clips, etc. etc. and there is always some area they aren't that great at.

All of the old school DAWs like DP: Cubase, Logic plus to a certain extent PT, and including the two or three newer DAWs that have old school logic or setups like Studio One and Reaper are capable of doing just about anything. That's the approach, almost all new features will eventually be included. The issue is the same for all DAWs, once something gets implemented, but years later needs a refresh to either fix what's missing or what's been broken it just gets passed up for some other element that sells better in advertisements for the upgrade.

This isn't any different for other DAWs, Logic could not differentiate MIDI input by port until about three years ago, what that meant was the only way to set up multi MIDI inputs was by channel which of course isn't a common thing anymore on MIDI controller keyboards. Around that time I was looking at using another DAW for MPE MIDI support, it just wasn't any fun to set up DP with MPE. Logic considering I used to use it was a rational choice, but I really do like multi MIDI input, it's nice having say a drum controller in record and ready without having to set it up for record every time etc.

All I'm saying it's always a choice, there's always something lacking, and the feeling with the big dogs (PT, Logic, Cubase) is you're wasting your time contacting support or asking for changes. They do offer better or more robust relations with control surfaces, and the money is there for development. I do wish MOTU had some sort of guy like Jurgen Moss who does third party controller support for Reaper and Bitwig, or hired someone in house to do the same things.

[James Steele]

I think one thing that happens with dinosaur DAWs in general is there's this feeling like they should all excel at all aspects of music, whether it's audio editing, MIDI, step sequencing, control surface support, UX, movie scoring, Ableton style clips, etc. etc. and there is always some area they aren't that great at.

It's a pretty axiomatic that a DAW can't be all things to all people. I don't really expect that. Personally, there were a couple of times in the past where I felt MOTU was wasting development resources trying to do that very thing. First time I can recall, it was when they introduced a whole bunch of guitar pedal / stompbox effects and stuff like that. That held zero interest for me as if I record guitar, I'm going to record scratch tracks with some sort of modeler and then when I want to record the actual tracks, I'm one of those weirdos who likes to put a microphone in front of a guitar amplifier cabinet. I know... right?

The second time was the clips feature. I'm sure some people love it and I can see it would be handy for me if I want to actually arrange MIDI in the TOV as a block.... for example 8 bars of a drum pattern, etc. But as far as the clips view, etc. I thought it made no sense this late in the game to try to "out-Ableton" Ableton. But again... some people may love it. Again holds no interest for me.

So yes, a DAW developer can't try to appeal to everyone. I think DP ought to play to its strengths.

That said, in my case, the features I really want right now don't work well. It's not like they didn't try to support outboard hardware or EUCON... they did. And if you were new to DP and you visited their website and read the promotional material you'd think "Hooray! It's supported! I'm all set." But there are varying degrees of support. Not to belabor it but DP's hardware insert implementation and EUCON implementation is objectively the worst of all the Mac DAWs I am familiar with that do that. DP is behind Cubase, Pro Tools and Logic all do it better... and those could be considered "dinosaur" DAWs as well right? Cubase has been around a long time. Logic goes back to eMagic days. Pro Tools obviously was Digidesign many years ago. Yet somehow they've managed to do those things better than MOTU has.

It's just frustrating. Again, no... I don' think a DAW needs to "excel at all aspects of music," but if you're going to claim support for something... maybe it should work properly? Especially if you've had years to address the problems.