DP12 release date?

[bdr]

For me, as a DP user since Studio Vision was killed, the problem with DP is the kind of crazy reluctance of MOTU to publicise. When I was using SVP in the 90s I remember MOTU having ads every month on the back of Keyboard Magazine, EM etc. Now those are gone. However they have a massive library of incredible webinars. Probably around 4 years worth now. And they simply refuse to put them up. So unless you're around at that time, or maybe a couple of days later on Facebook, that's it. They are gone.

I have written constantly to MOTU, including Jim Cooper, and NOONE will explain the reluctance to have an uploaded library of these incredible resources. I mean no-one. I've messaged, called, emailed. Absolute refusal to engage with a 20+ year customer. Matt LaPoint does this amazing work every week, and for what? Around 30 old dudes!!

This is the attitude of MOTU and for me it explains much of their diminishing visibility.

[greg328]

Agree 100%


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[cuttime]

For me, as a DP user since Studio Vision was killed, the problem with DP is the kind of crazy reluctance of MOTU to publicise. When I was using SVP in the 90s I remember MOTU having ads every month on the back of Keyboard Magazine, EM etc. Now those are gone. However they have a massive library of incredible webinars. Probably around 4 years worth now. And they simply refuse to put them up. So unless you're around at that time, or maybe a couple of days later on Facebook, that's it. They are gone.

I have written constantly to MOTU, including Jim Cooper, and NOONE will explain the reluctance to have an uploaded library of these incredible resources. I mean no-one. I've messaged, called, emailed. Absolute refusal to engage with a 20+ year customer. Matt LaPoint does this amazing work every week, and for what? Around 30 old dudes!!

This is the attitude of MOTU and for me it explains much of their diminishing visibility.

This is one of the most depressing things I've seen today.

[RayMasse]

+1

Hi! I'm on DP since version 2.7.2!
and very not happy about the fact that MOTU is completely absent about
what's gonna happen with Mach v3, Ethno, BPM, and more!

Now I'm on MONTEREY OS 12..... And I can't use anymore the softwares that is included in all my productions.

shame on MOTU I think!

Ray

[mikehalloran]

+1

Hi! I'm on DP since version 2.7.2!
and very not happy about the fact that MOTU is completely absent about
what's gonna happen with Mach v3, Ethno, BPM, and more!

Now I'm on MONTEREY OS 12..... And I can't use anymore the softwares that is included in all my productions.

shame on MOTU I think!

Ray

My first version was DP 2.71.

Ok... this thread is about DP 12. There are other threads about those apps but here is a brief overview:

Those apps depended on code licensed from UVI. That partnership ended years ago and there will never be new versions of them. There are many old threads about that. In 2020, MOTU announced the following:
https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/ ... nd-big-sur

MOTU Virtual Instruments and Big Sur or Later

MachFive, Ethno Instrument, BPM, Electric Keys, and Symphonic Instrument (any version) are not compatible with macOS Big Sur or later.

As a workaround, the UVI Workstation instrument (free) can read the soundbank libraries from all of these products and can be installed on macOS Big Sur.

Visit the link below to download and install UVI Workstation:
https://www.uvi.net/uvi-workstation.html

After it's installed, move the soundbanks for MachFive, Ethno Instrument, BPM, Electric Keys or Symphonic Instrument to the following location on your computer:

Mac: Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/UVISoundBanks
Win: C:/ProgramFiles/UVISoundBanks

IMPORTANT: Be sure to download the latest updated soundbank (UFS) files from motu.com/download.

Falcon is UVI's replacement for MachFive. At the time, an upgrade path was offered to MachFive owners at a discount. You can email UVI to see if that discount exists — others have done so later with success. Good luck!
https://www.uvi.net/falcon.html

Again, there are many, many threads about this with a lot more information. Perhaps James can move this to one of them.

[bayswater]

I’m on Monterey too. Mach5 still seems to work if I want it, but I updated for not a lot money to Falcon and all the Mach 5 instruments work fine in it.

One thing no one seems to consider is whether there is a good reason to update the OS on Mac used for audio production. Sometimes you have because you have a new Mac, or if you use Logic keeping up with their latest version required OS updates. But otherwise, there is little or no advantage to updating the OS.

Seems to me decisions about the OS, and even the computer, should be dependent on what versions of what software you want to use, rather than the other way around.

[dix]

For me, as a DP user since Studio Vision was killed, the problem with DP is the kind of crazy reluctance of MOTU to publicise. When I was using SVP in the 90s I remember MOTU having ads every month on the back of Keyboard Magazine, EM etc. Now those are gone. However they have a massive library of incredible webinars. Probably around 4 years worth now. And they simply refuse to put them up. So unless you're around at that time, or maybe a couple of days later on Facebook, that's it. They are gone.

I have written constantly to MOTU, including Jim Cooper, and NOONE will explain the reluctance to have an uploaded library of these incredible resources. I mean no-one. I've messaged, called, emailed. Absolute refusal to engage with a 20+ year customer. Matt LaPoint does this amazing work every week, and for what? Around 30 old dudes!!

This is the attitude of MOTU and for me it explains much of their diminishing visibility.

it's more like 60 old dudes, but your point is taken.

I too am an SVP refugee. MOTU seemed super tightlipped to the point of secretive to me, compared to Opcode. I never liked it or understood it either, but it is their way. I got used to it. I see the reluctance to post the webinar videos is just another symptom of this. I don't think any amount of emailing, calling or posting is going to change it.

My guess as to why they are reluctant to post the webinar videos permanently would be that they want rigorous control over how their products are perceived. The webinars must be way too raw for the image they want out there forever. I was surprised when they started posting the webinars on Facebook, even for a few days. Given MOTU's uncommunicative ways that seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me.

All this may very well be part of why DP's user base is so small, but it shouldn't be forgotten that DP continues to deliver the best music production software in the industry year after year....is for me anyway, and for most ppl on this board.

[Michael Canavan]

I hate saying it but I feel like MOTU are at a loss as to how to properly promote DP, and have been ever since Apple bought Logic.

Improve the general UX and engage in social media, their presence there is just a few 50+ year olds talking about their recording studio setup. Figuring out how to engage the under 50 crowd is a big one. The workflow is too geared towards templates and setting things up just right. It should be just as easy to use DP on a laptop with a single controller and an empty template as it is with a studio, three monitors and a 200 track template.

An example, you can save an instrument with the MIDI settings, track color track name etc, but your output assignments get lost every time, the name is italicized even if nothing has changed. No other DAW I use does this, and they all have a way to save a track with plugins etc.

[James Steele]

This has been a frustration for years. I could relate stories here publicly, but I simply can't about making suggestions and trying to help by lining up a testimonial with a relatively "hip" musician and MOTU just didn't seem interested. I think endorsements actually DO carry a lot of weight and a lot of people out there want reassurance that somebody "important" or famous in the industry that they can relate to is using the same DAW they're using.

Then there are the YouTube and social media influencers. There is a wealth of material about other DAWs on YouTube and not very much that I can see about DP.

In the same vein... I recently paid $150 for my NAMM badge for the show in Anaheim this coming January. The poor, poor NAMM show seems to continue to downsize post pandemic. I don't think it will ever regain its former glory/stature. They seem to have divided it up with Events on first couple of days, and then the actual Convention floor for exhibits is open Thursday through Saturday. Sunday just gone now. Three days instead of four for the exhibits.

I don't think NAMM has posted a list of exhibitors yet. They're still hustling to sell exhibit space. I came across them listing their various exhibitor packages and I don't think I've ever seen that before: https://www.namm.org/thenammshow/exhibit/2025

But what I'm wondering is will MOTU be MIA again for yet another year. I understand that exhibiting is expensive (probalby less so these days) and many companies have figured out it's not really necessary to their bottom line, but at the same time... at least for now... it's not a good look when your competition is there and you're not. Not seeing that much about MOTU or DP online in forums, etc, it always made me feel better to come down the stairs in the "software hall" and look out and see the big "MOTU" logo on their booth... it was reassuring.

I ramble. Anyway... I really, really want the best for MOTU and DP, but as some have heard me grouse about here, I sunk some money into an Avid S3 and external hardware and after the fact discovered that both of those areas are weak points for DP as compared to other Mac DAWs. So I get a bit frustrated from time to time.

[cuttime]

It would just be nice if MOTU occasionally displayed their commitment to DP. I'd really hate to wake up one morning and find DP has been "Finale'd".

[HobbyCore]

It would just be nice if MOTU occasionally displayed their commitment to DP. I'd really hate to wake up one morning and find DP has been "Finale'd".

This is why I started moving to another DAW last year. DP works great for me, for now, but I can't risk MOTU's constant lack of public commitment.

I've been "around" since DP3, back when there was serious differentiation between the products and you could easily argue strong value to use X instead of Y for Z work. That's been eroded, and what's left is preference and alignment with company vision.

I have no idea what the company's vision is (apparently to be more like Ableton Live I guess...). Preference is a weak pull when you need to pay the bills.

[Michael Canavan]

It would just be nice if MOTU occasionally displayed their commitment to DP. I'd really hate to wake up one morning and find DP has been "Finale'd".

This is why I started moving to another DAW last year. DP works great for me, for now, but I can't risk MOTU's constant lack of public commitment.

I've been "around" since DP3, back when there was serious differentiation between the products and you could easily argue strong value to use X instead of Y for Z work. That's been eroded, and what's left is preference and alignment with company vision.

I have no idea what the company's vision is (apparently to be more like Ableton Live I guess...). Preference is a weak pull when you need to pay the bills.

To be fair to them, I don't think there is a lack of commitment the last couple updates brought MASSIVE changes to DP, I don't think that can be argued.

Personally it's that commitment to being an all in one stop shop that keeps me interested. I've switched in the past to Logic, spent a year with Reaper, and kept Ableton Live, (more recently Bitwig), around as a secondary "modern" DAW to mess with. I keep using DP because I like their commitment to multiple use cases.

My biggest complaint at this point is more about all the preplanning it takes to do things in DP, compared an upstart DAW like Bitwig, it can seem like spontaneity isn't as easy to achieve.

It's also been a looong time since DP was upgraded, 12 is due anytime, and that causes unrest.

[bayswater]

My biggest complaint at this point is more about all the preplanning it takes to do things in DP, compared an upstart DAW like Bitwig, it can seem like spontaneity isn't as easy to achieve.

Perhaps but I think I have overcome this to some degree by thinking about how I approach new projects and setting up templates that cover much of this. They range from one with nothing but the I/O definitions, to one that has a load of Chunks and piles channels and signal routing.

I’d be interested in how Bitwig makes this easier.

[mikehalloran]

I recently paid $150 for my NAMM badge for the show in Anaheim this coming January.

Oh hell, it's that time of year already? Aaaaargh!!!!! I'm still working through my box from last year. It's a $200 ding if I renew my membership but includes 3 or 4 badges.

[Michael Canavan]

I’d be interested in how Bitwig makes this easier.

Right away their version of clippings does not lose output assignments. You instantiate a track and hit the letter b and a popup browser appears with presets, VI's FX etc. Control surface support is extensive covered by even a Generic Flexi that allows you to set up any unsupported control surface. On the subject of control surfaces, ones like you see these days with knobs and sliders for CC's etc. also work with plugin automation, either on a project or global basis. So basic plugins like EQ pluginss etc. can be mapped to always respond to the same set of knobs and faders. MPE support is outstanding and easy compared to DP. (DP has one advantage with Upper and Lower range MPE settings, but it's not bad in Bitwig.) The Grid in Bitwig is basically a modular synthesis Max/MSP environment built in. It's almost impossible to get Bitwig to glitch the audio, I'm constantly forgetting that DP will mess things up if you add Kontkat instances while a song is playing. oh and plugin sandboxing isn't a UX thing, but it is a doesn't crash ever thing.

To contrast this Bitwig doesn't do Articulation mapping, movie hosting, SysEx, doesn't have a score window, is VST only and IMO because it's about a running engine not glitching it has no secondary buffer and gets significantly less tracks before failure than DP. The advantages are all about smaller arrangements, I don't think it would be worth it to use 40+ instruments in Bitwig in the first place.