DP 11.21 Released

[James Steele]

It seems to me that we have gained flexibility without losing anything.

That’s kind of how I see it too. I know there is a work around to save an old style Instrument Track as a clipping and then you can use the clipping to create a new “old style” Instrument Track whenever you desire. I thought that was clever… until I realized there didn’t seem to be any point.

I can create an “new style” Instrument Track and pretend it’s the old kind. I can make it the target of MIDI track or tracks just as we all used to do.

[Michael Canavan]

You are probably correct but, unless I am missing something here, you are discussing a distinction that has no practical difference.

As Mr. Steele noted, after creating a new VI track (to which one can record MIDI Data if so desired), it is a simple matter to add MIDI-only tracks that point to any MIDI channel for that VI.

It seems to me that we have gained flexibility without losing anything.

Yes, we've gained flexibility, but the old way is effectively on it's way out. It's very similar to the Great Looping Disaster™ that happened with the introduction of Clips, there's arguably more advantage to the way clips work now as opposed to Loops, but people hate change. The fact that you can keep the look of your old projects by not converting is not any indication that there is or will be some way to have instrument tracks in the future that do not have MIDI attached to them.

Personally all I really hope for in the next version of DP is refinement. Currently the combined MIDI and instrument tracks have audio FX slots and MIDI FX slots that match each other in amount, and how many times do you need 4-6 MIDI FX because you put 4-6 audio FX on a single track in your mixer? Clips are easy to work with for looped audio and MIDI, but they avoid all advanced editing windows, they do not show up in the Event list, Waveform, Graphic, Score and Drum editors. The quick edit Clip subwindow is pretty good, but it really makes zero sense to not be able to use the Drum editor to edit MIDI in a Clip.

Anyway I'm rambling a bit, but count me in as someone who sees no downside to consolidated instrument tracks.

[labman]

Personally all I really hope for in the next version of DP is refinement.

Amen! Pass the bacon.

[bayswater]

Again, where is your ability to switch back to virtual instrument tracks that have no MIDI channel coming into play here?

Maybe the “have no MIDI” is the confusion. Obviously there is MIDI. When I’m in front of DP I’ll get the names of the commands I’ve used to go back and forth, and post them.

[Michael Canavan]

Again, where is your ability to switch back to virtual instrument tracks that have no MIDI channel coming into play here?

Maybe the “have no MIDI” is the confusion. Obviously there is MIDI. When I’m in front of DP I’ll get the names of the commands I’ve used to go back and forth, and post them.

The only way I know of to have instrument tracks without MIDI attached is a V-Rack.

You don't need to anything like a command to use a MIDI track to control a virtual instrument track, just create a MIDI track, and move the MIDI to it.

[Killahurts]

The only way I know of to have instrument tracks without MIDI attached is a V-Rack.

I noticed the other day that if you drag a V-Rack of virtual instruments into the tracks overview, it creates the instrument tracks with no MIDI, like it used to be. You have to use the run command to make them the new "MIDI integrated" version.

So one could create VI's, move them to V Racks and then drag them back in as tracks again.. if they're very adamant about not seeing the little record button on the VI.

[bayswater]

Again, where is your ability to switch back to virtual instrument tracks that have no MIDI channel coming into play here?

Maybe the “have no MIDI” is the confusion. Obviously there is MIDI. When I’m in front of DP I’ll get the names of the commands I’ve used to go back and forth, and post them.

I went back to make sure I have the command names correct.

Using Project > Add Track > Instruments With Options ..., and adding 1 instance of Falcon and 4 MIDI tracks, gives me what I had in DP 10. Use the command Merge By Channel, and the MIDI tracks sometimes disappear (presumably the right response), sometimes leaves behind one of the tracks (usually the first one), sometimes makes DP crash. If I record MIDI into the any of the MIDI tracks before merging, these appear in the merged Instrument track as expected, assuming the Merge by Channel command executes without error.

If I just create an instrument track, record more than one MIDI channel into that and use Split by Channel, I get new MIDI tracks with the recorded data.

So, my point -- MOTU does not appear to be interested in support switching between the two workflow approaches because they don't have these commands in the main menus. Not a big deal because they are assignable to a shortcut.

But I get inconsistent results using one of the two commands. Whether this matters or not, I don't know. It's really easy to use the new approach -- everything is visible and manageable, so there's not much reason to ever use the Merge by Channels command at least in new projects. . But if I get inconsistent results and the occasional crash, perhaps there are bugs in the code that ought to be addressed.

[Michael Canavan]

Again, where is your ability to switch back to virtual instrument tracks that have no MIDI channel coming into play here?

Maybe the “have no MIDI” is the confusion. Obviously there is MIDI. When I’m in front of DP I’ll get the names of the commands I’ve used to go back and forth, and post them.

I went back to make sure I have the command names correct.

Using Project > Add Track > Instruments With Options ..., and adding 1 instance of Falcon and 4 MIDI tracks, gives me what I had in DP 10. Use the command Merge By Channel, and the MIDI tracks sometimes disappear (presumably the right response), sometimes leaves behind one of the tracks (usually the first one), sometimes makes DP crash. If I record MIDI into the any of the MIDI tracks before merging, these appear in the merged Instrument track as expected, assuming the Merge by Channel command executes without error.

If I just create an instrument track, record more than one MIDI channel into that and use Split by Channel, I get new MIDI tracks with the recorded data.

So, my point -- MOTU does not appear to be interested in support switching between the two workflow approaches because they don't have these commands in the main menus. Not a big deal because they are assignable to a shortcut.

But I get inconsistent results using one of the two commands. Whether this matters or not, I don't know. It's really easy to use the new approach -- everything is visible and manageable, so there's not much reason to ever use the Merge by Channels command at least in new projects. . But if I get inconsistent results and the occasional crash, perhaps there are bugs in the code that ought to be addressed.

OK now I'm getting it. You're not using the commands that specifically apply to consolidated instrument tracks. There's a new feature in DP concurrent with MPE that allows multiple MIDI channels to be merged into a single track (or split from), this is why it's seeming problematic to you, it's not separating out MIDI from a consolidated instrument track per say, the same thing would apply to a MIDI track you recorded multiple MIDI channels to etc. This command for me here splits out the MIDI channels to MIDI tracks, but doesn't get rid of the MIDI input in the virtual instrument here. Killahurts method is the only one I know of that "creates" an old school no MIDI input VI.

[bayswater]

The only way I know of to have instrument tracks without MIDI attached is a V-Rack.

I noticed the other day that if you drag a V-Rack of virtual instruments into the tracks overview, it creates the instrument tracks with no MIDI, like it used to be. You have to use the run command to make them the new "MIDI integrated" version.

So one could create VI's, move them to V Racks and then drag them back in as tracks again.. if they're very adamant about not seeing the little record button on the VI.

Tried this out. As you say, you can move a VI from a sequence to a V-Rack, create a MIDI track, and play the VI that is in the VRack from the sequence as you always could. And you can drag the Vrack copy back into the sequence, reassign the output of the MIDI track and play the MIDI through the copy of the VI in the sequence. But if you select the MIDI track and the VI and run Merge by Channel, that doesn't work. I also note there is no record button on the new instance of the VI in the sequence. I had assumed all VIs now have lanes for MIDI but the one created by dragging from the Vrack only has lanes for the usual parameters like Volume, Pan, etc.

So how would you go from a VI in Vrack to a VI in the sequence with integrated MIDI tracks? Do I have to RTFM?

[bayswater]

Killahurts method is the only one I know of that "creates" an old school no MIDI input VI.

That appears to be the case. Although it's not clear why we would need a VI that cannot have MIDI input, even if we choose to use external MIDI tracks to play it.

[bayswater]

OK now I'm getting it. You're not using the commands that specifically apply to consolidated instrument tracks.

I don't understand. I got these commands from the manual. See. pp 162-3. How do they not specifically apply?

Merging MIDI tracks into an instrument track

If, at some point, you need to combine one or more separate MIDI tracks into an instrument track, use the Merge by Channel command (in the Commands window in the Setup menu) as follows:

1 Assign the MIDI tracks to the virtual instrument instantiated on the instrument track (if they aren’t already).
If the virtual instrument is multi-timbral and supports multiple parts receiving on separate MIDI channels, assign each MIDI track to the appropriate channel (part).

2 If the instrument track is a “legacy” track (that can’t hold MIDI data), convert it. See “Converting legacy instrument tracks” below).

3 Select the MIDI tracks and the instrument track.

4 Invoke the Merge by Channel command, either by pressing the keystroke you’ve assigned to it in the Commands window, or by using Run Command (shift-spacebar).
The MIDI tracks are now consolidated into the Instrument track. Channelized MIDI data inherits the output channel assignment of its source track, allowing you to easily combine multiple channel streams. (See “Multi-channel MIDI tracks” on page 144.) If you need to change the MIDI channel of any data in the merged track, use the Change MIDI Channel command (Region menu).

Splitting an instrument track into separate MIDI tracks by MIDI channel

If an instrument track has multiple MIDI channel data streams, and you wish to split them out into separate MIDI tracks, use the Split by Channel command (in the Commands window in the Setup menu):

1 Select the entire instrument track, or the portion you wish to split out.

2 Invoke the Split by Channel command, either by pressing the keystroke you’ve assigned to it in the Commands window, or by using Run Command (shift-spacebar).
The resulting separate MIDI tracks remain assigned to the instrument track.

[bayswater]

Killahurts method is the only one I know of that "creates" an old school no MIDI input VI.

That appears to be the case. Although it's not clear why we would need a VI that cannot have MIDI input, even if we choose to use external MIDI tracks to play it.

Never Mind. I just saw it. The "Convert Legacy Instrument" command works to do this. So dragging a VI to a sequence creates a "legacy instrument".

[Irimi Nage]

It's work fine also for me at this level; on the other hand, calling and using Universal Audio Instruments & plug-ins (UADx format) caused me crashes of D.P. when reopening projects containing these UADx instances.
No more problem now with version 11.21.

I'm getting this exact crash with clean installs of DP 11.21 and the latest UADx's. At first I thought it was normal UAD and UADx plugins that were causing DP to crash but now it's looking like it's only UADx. I've been trying to get this working for a week straight

I know it's not a conflict with any other plugins because there aren't any - in an effort to get this working I wiped the computer yesterday and installed only DP11 and UAD/UADx onto the clean macOS. I've tried a hardware reset on the Apollo and switching out the thunderbolt 2 cable / thunderbolt 3 adapter, no luck.

Is anyone else getting this crash as well?

Mac Studio M1 Max 2022
32 GB RAM
Apollo Twin Duo MkII
Monterey 12.6.2
DP 11.21
UAD 10.2.2
I don't know how to check UADx versions but it's whatever is current at the time of this writing.

Thanks for any assistance!

[James Steele]

I'll try to add more info soon, but I have similar setup with M1 Max Mac Studio and have UAD-2 and UADx plug-ins installed and don't think I'm having any issues with that, but I'll double-check. I have updated to Monterey 10.6.3, but that's probably not going to make a difference.

[Irimi Nage]

Actually I've been meaning to do the Monterey update, thanks for the reminder James