DP10 is waaay snappier than DP11...when working to picture

[ToddBryanton]

Thanks for reporting and reminding us. If you run Time Machine, you could probably revert to the pre-Mojave situation...

Like many others, I ended up buying a Mac Studio and leaving the 5,1 behind. Well, it is still in the machine closet, ready to be pulled back into service if needed. Looks so much more impressive than that measly Mac Studio sitting quietly on the shelf below, sprouting cables from every port.

Interesting, thanks for the tip. I'll have to look into a Mac Studio. I was just pricing out a new Mac Pro last night but good to know there's other options out there. My current setup is a 12 year old cheesegrater Mac Pro with 128 GB Ram, 12 core 3.33 mHz, Radeon RX 8 GB, 8 TB of internal SSDs. It's just frustrating that to make a purely lateral move and get a similar new setup would probably cost minimum $8k plus but I guess writing's on the wall, the power could conk out on this thing any day now running for 12 years straight even if I wasn't dealing with software and OS issues.

I obviously wouldn't even consider any Mac that uses Intel processors which I think the current MacPro still does. You actually DO have another option. It may technically be possible to upgrade your MacPro to Catalina. I know one guy who has a MacPro5,1 12-core like I do (although I'm transitioning right now to an M1 Max Mac Studio 64GB/2TB) that upgraded his to Catalina specifically to get around this bug that DP has with the GUI slowing down when using the Movie Window in Mojave.

Here's some info: http://dosdude1.com/catalina/

Of course, back things up before you try it. I know it has indeed worked for people. I might have done it, except I was already having issues with a graphics card I bought off of Craigslist running hot and causing issues, so out of exasperation I just threw in the towel and decided I'd had enough and it was time to exit the Intel world as far as Macs go.

Wow, this is amazing! I'll try this next week when I'm done the short I'm working on right now, thank you so much. Even if it doesn't work I appreciate having something new to try

[James Steele]

Just back everything up. I'm hoping it all goes smoothly, but I have to just cover my butt and say I'm not responsible if anything goes wrong. Make sure you're setup up with a backup and can restore to the state just before doing this if all goes south. I think the guy I know of who did it cloned his boot drive to another SSD and then did a test, upgrading the clone to Catalina to make sure it worked. Satisfied it did, he then went ahead and upgraded his REAL boot drive. (Presumably since there were some app/plug-in authorizations on it I guess.)

That said, again, I can't assume any responsibility.

[HCMarkus]

Interesting, thanks for the tip. I'll have to look into a Mac Studio... It's just frustrating that to make a purely lateral move and get a similar new setup would probably cost minimum $8k

I can assure, moving to ANY Mac Studio model will not be lateral... the M1/M2 Macs are beasts in tiny, cool-running packages. Compare the Geekbench scores for your 12-core (a little more RAM and different GPU, but otherwise exactly the same as I had) with the lowliest Apple Silicon Mac. I can assure you, the AS Macs are significantly quicker and more powerful.

I went for the Studio Ultra, which is a requirement if you need 128GB of RAM. I chose 64GB RAM and a 2TB Internal drive, so my cost was around $4,400. Doubling the RAM will cost you an extra $800.

External NVMe Thunderbolt storage costs about 1/2 what Apple charges for internal, and is about 1/4 - 1/2 as fast. But either option, and even external USB C SATA SSDs, will handily serve VIs and Audio tracks plenty quick. If you already own NVMe or SATA SSDs, you can put them in Thunderbolt or USB external enclosures. I've done both, and all have worked well. I can offer enclosure suggestions that have worked for me if anyone would like me to.

If you buy one of the new Macs, there are almost certainly a hub or dock or two in your future. I am using non-powered USB-C hubs to handle my USB hard drive connections. I have a powered hub connecting all my audio peripherals (keyboards, faderport, shuttle, breath controller, etc)

For on-site Time Machine and long-term backup, I use several 8TB external USB hard drives.

BackBlaze provides cloud backup.

Putting my new system together, including a new NVMe 2TB drive, cost me a lot less than $8k; it was more like $5k. Although I had planned to continue working on my current score project on the old machine, I was able to port to the Mac Studio immediately and with great results... my productivity running DP11 (I moved from the DP10.13 I was running on the cheesegrater) increased big-time, and my frustrations were significantly reduced.

To get there, I spent about three partial days doing a clean install of my apps and plugins, most of which are now Apple Silicon Native. Most installed plugins (including Kontakt!!!) are AS-Native and work great. Most of the remaining essential non-Native plugins work great running under DP-Native. Altiverb needs to be installed while running DP under Rosetta, but then works fine under DP Native. A few show some issues but are still usable. A couple (notably BFD) don't run under DP-Native. BFD does work f DP is run in Rosetta Mode.

If you don't know what Rosetta2 is, just know it works really well. Google for more info.

Good luck!

[mikehalloran]

Interesting, thanks for the tip. I'll have to look into a Mac Studio. I was just pricing out a new Mac Pro last night but good to know there's other options out there.…

The only reason to consider the current Mac Pro is if you have AV rendering needs that require the $14K video option ($20–53k out the door) In the Refurb Store right now, those range from $19–43K.
https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac/mac-pro

Anyway, those with the twin Vega II Duo + Afterburner are the only version of the MP that outperforms the current Studio Ultra 20-Core CPU, 64-Core GPU, 32-Core Neural Engine. Apple pulled the plug on the M1 Mac Pro (some prototypes are in the field at major studios) in favor of an M2 Mac Pro that may or may not be announced in the next 12 months (depending on whom you believe—some expect it in December).

Back in the real world, no one currently running an MP 5.1 has those AV needs unless you are turning down work — and if that's the case, why haven't you upgraded already?

The iMac Pro I have is $11K in the Refurb Store. As good as it is, that's insane considering that a maxed out Studio Ultra plus the Studio Display with Nano Glass costs $11.060. I'm not looking at it to increase DP/Audio performance—an 18 core iMP is way more than fast and stable enough—the increase in AV performance and the internal storage bump to 8TB are my reasons. The only reasons I've not placed the order involve my job situation come next month which I'm still waiting on. I know that I won't get $11K for the iMP but if I go back to teaching, I may keep and make it my classroom computer. Neither will I need a maxed out Studio Ultra here and I might want to save $3K and go with a maxed out Studio Max instead.

[HCMarkus]

As for relative computing horsepower, I should point out that a project I'm now running in DP under Rosetta2 runs easily with a 128 buffer (haven't tried 64, but it would likely work fine) and everything is super snappy, including the DP GUI. On my 5,1 12 core, this was not possible. And at a larger buffer, 512 minimum IIRC, GUI response was far slower.

The one area the AS Macs don't blow away older machines is when you have to stack a ton of plugins on a single track. With a big mastering chain added to a project for mastering at mix down, buffer size may have to be increased for solid playback.

[dewaard]

Make sure that your GPU is powerful enough. I had the same problems and they all went away after upgrading my R9-270 to a RX580. My current setup has 3 displays (2x 1080p monitor, 1x 4K television). Working in a DP template with over 1000 tracks. It's only logical that they are handling over graphic drawing routines more and more to the GPU side.

[James Steele]

I had same issues with a Radeon HD 7950 (I think that was the number). That’s a pretty powerful graphics card. It was still a problem. MOTU has acknowledged this issue with DP 11 and Mojave on Intel MacPros.

[ToddBryanton]

I had same issues with a Radeon HD 7950 (I think that was the number). That’s a pretty powerful graphics card. It was still a problem. MOTU has acknowledged this issue with DP 11 and Mojave on Intel MacPros.

Huge, huge thank you. Using this link http://dosdude1.com/catalina/ allowed me to install Catalina without any problems and 100% fixed the issue I was having with Mojave. You're a life-saver. The graphical slow down with movie window open in DP 11 under Mojave is definitely 100% a software incompatibility issue and had nothing to do with the graphics card I'm using, since it's worked perfectly in 10.13 and 10.15 now

[James Steele]

I had same issues with a Radeon HD 7950 (I think that was the number). That’s a pretty powerful graphics card. It was still a problem. MOTU has acknowledged this issue with DP 11 and Mojave on Intel MacPros.

Huge, huge thank you. Using this link http://dosdude1.com/catalina/ allowed me to install Catalina without any problems and 100% fixed the issue I was having with Mojave. You're a life-saver. The graphical slow down with movie window open in DP 11 under Mojave is definitely 100% a software incompatibility issue and had nothing to do with the graphics card I'm using, since it's worked perfectly in 10.13 and 10.15 now

Yes, it’s definitely a Mojave & DP 11 issue and it’s not likely to get fixed so if you need to work with picture in DP 11, you really only had two choices: downgrade to High Sierra or upgrade to Catalina. Glad it worked for you. Had I not bit the bullet and bought a Mac Studio, I would have done the Catalina thing on my MacPro.