mach 5 II still not yet

[jimlongo]

I don't know why I thought that v2 was going to be free for all loyal v1 beta customers.



I hope I don't sound bitter . . .

[russhughes]

Yet, because I mention that, diplomatically, you have to wave some preverbial finger at me regarding "endearing" people to me. Newflash... This aint Match.com, Russ.

Isn't it? Oh no I really thought I'd scored with MIDI and all this time he has been stringing me along.

BTW no one was suggesting that the software works perfectly, but that doesn't make us 'TOTAL surface users'. Thanks anyway for your resume... sounds like you could teach MOTU a few things about the software!

[russhughes]

OK then...

So I have the following system and softwares.

Mac Dual 2.0 G5 with 2.5 GB Ram-running 10.4.3
PT 7.1cs3
Motu Mach 5-update 1.2.3
Waves Platinum Bundle, Antares Auto Tune TDM and Filter, Korg Legacy Bundle, Arturia CS-80, Sound Toys Ultra Fx and EchoBoy TDM, FxPansions VST-RTAS wrapper and GURU, Ableton Live 5.0.3, Motu MIDI Xpress XT.
Digidesign Synchronic, DINR, and other stock plugins.
Safari 2.0 with broadband
Do you need anything else???

Sunsinger

Couple of things:
Which version of PT? TDM?
Are all the plugins you list currently installed on your system?

[sunsinger]

Russ...
Yes, TDM with a 192 I/O, and yes, all of the plugins are currrently installed.
Sunsinger

[russhughes]

This is virtually the same thing that Dave has said to me for 6 months...
You would think they would get tired of it and release the upgrade... But Hey...Here comes Ethno, (should be "Ethics"), and MX4 ver 2, and Symphonic, DP ver 5... Look at how much energy Motu has to develop new products... But it takes 2 years to get a simple sample player/editor right... And its still not done...

But.......................The................wait.................will.................be......................worth...................iiiiiiiiiiiiiit..................

Sunsinger

You can imagine MOTU R&D can't you...
Day 54
'OK guys we must get this v2.0 finished, but hang on I have a great idea for a piece of software called Symphony...'
Day 78
'OK guys we really must get v2.0 finished, hey but before we start that how about we do some stuff with MX4...'
Day 134
'Guys I know we promised to get v2.0 done sometime, but I've just watched the Apple podcast on the new Intel gear and I think we should get moving on that straight away...'
Day 153
'I know we keep talking about it but when are we going to finish v2.0, let's make a real effort on it. What does everyone have for lunch today, mmm Indian food I love that, hey wouldn't it be cool to make a sound module with ethnic instruments then we could have an authentic restaurant setting in here....'

he he he ....

[russhughes]

Russ...
Yes, TDM with a 192 I/O, and yes, all of the plugins are currrently installed.
Sunsinger

OK some of them are not authorised for 7.0. The VST wrapper is not compatible and does cause PT crashes when using plugins. Some of the other are not compatible either. Best thing is to move all your non approved plugins from the plugin folder (not the alias) HD/library/applications/digidesign/plugins (I think) and put them into storage on a folder on your desktop and then run the system and see how it works. Also open up the Mac disk utility and repair your disk permissions on the system drive.

You said that you also had the same problem on other Mac's what's the spec there and I was also serious about the issue of a faulty install disk. The chances of that being the case are minimal, but then you said that you had installed it on several systems with the same results.

Finally what samples do not load from the disk?

Another thing - did the Mac come with the memory from Apple or did you source it from a thrid party supplier, if so where from?

Sorry about all the questions but it would be great if we could deal with some of the issues, it's rubbish when these things happen because they stop us working and frustration is a real creativity killer.

[sunsinger]

OK some of them are not authorised for 7.0. The VST wrapper is not compatible and does cause PT crashes when using plugins. Some of the other are not compatible either. Best thing is to move all your non approved plugins from the plugin folder (not the alias) HD/library/applications/digidesign/plugins (I think) and put them into storage on a folder on your desktop and then run the system and see how it works. Also open up the Mac disk utility and repair your disk permissions on the system drive.

Russ...
Dude, your assertions regarding PT 7 plugins and the VST wrapper are totally without foundation. And I can assure you that the presence of these plugins are not the cause of persistant and consistant problems that I have had with Mach Five since I installed it.

Point #1: In a previous post I said that I have installed M5 on at least 3 different computers, using at least 6 different OS, using a fresh install method each time, and reformatting the primary HD each time. And I said that every time I installed Mach5 the same problems arose with it. CONSISTANTLY.

The ONLY thing that this verifies is that Mach Five has the same buggy problems from system to system and computer to computer and from year to year and update to update.

I know this may seem a bit obvious, but you say this has happened on several different systems, have you ever tried another copy of MachFive.

Duh...every time you install a MOTU update from the website...Like ver.1.2.3, you are installing a different copy of Mach Five. I've done this a total of about 6 times.

Point #2 These bugs were apparent with MachFive before I started using the VST Wrapper which was about July '05. And I am a beta tester for the VST wrapper, and the only thing I can say about the VST wrapper is that it makes some RTAS plugins that don't work well in ProTools, actually work.
And there is no apparent effect or connection that I can see with other plugins that would work in Pro Tools anyway.

Point #3 Not all of these plug-ins were resident on my computer during these various incarnations of MachFive usage, also is MachFive supposed to be the only plugin on my computer??? Doesn't it play well with others at all?

Point #4 I repair disk permissions every time I install new software, and run disk utilities on a regular basis, and defragment my drives on a regular basis.

And I have an entirely separate HD in my computer with a non-mission critical purpose and regularly test Applications in an isolated environment to see if they are interacting badly with other programs.

So when I have an issue with MachFive or any other plug in or rewire device, I remove everything from the plugins folder and do these tests in a sterile environment.

You said that you also had the same problem on other Mac's what's the spec there and I was also serious about the issue of a faulty install disk. The chances of that being the case are minimal, but then you said that you had installed it on several systems with the same results.

You've got to be kidding... When do you guys who are loyal to a company/program to the death, just give up...

You know, pretty soon you are going to run out of things outside of MachFive to blame and your going to have to just accept it...

MACHFIVE DOESN'T REALLY WORK RIGHT AND IT HAS PROBLEMS THAT WERE THERE FROM THE BEGINNING, AND MOTU SHOULD JUST FIX THE DAMN THING SO THAT IT WORKS SMOOTHLY WITHOUT HAVING TO DISSASEMBLE EVERY NUT AND BOLT IN YOUR COMPUTER TO FIND OUT WHY IT DOESN'T WORK

"Where did you get your memory from? Your Computer? Did anyone possesing a particularly strong magnetic field walk near or sit too close to your computer? Have you had a recent alein encounter which you don't remember?"

FOOEY!!!!

Motu... Look at what your doing to people... Just release the damn update already... And this time don't use the general public to beta test it for you... Just make sure it works....

Sunsinger

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Motu... Just release the damn update already... Just make sure it works....

Unfortunately, these two comments may be inconsistent with each other - as we both know all too well.

[sunsinger]

I know MIDI Life. But they've had a year since the announcement and released 4 new products in the meantime... Unfortunately I think Russ' mock scenario with the R&D team may be too true.

Look at Ableton Live... Man, thier product is strong... Its fairly much like a tank.. I think that these guys are doing the right thing.

They make a limited product line and get people to really focus on it, and make it bulletproof. That's not to say that ithey don't have an occasional stumble. But they're responsive to customers problems and issues and release fixes quickly. That damn German engineering does hold up well.

Sunsinger

[gblock]

At this point? I'd rather have the option of playing roulette with different versions of the product. At least then I can pick and choose the set of bugs I want installed.

Hopefully it'll come with a different sample library. I've got to be honest - I don't like what it came with.

On the upside, I *did* figure out which samples from the conversion process of my EXS samples were causing it. On the downside, it's all the EXS-based GarageBand instruments installed by Apple's jam packs. There's something slightly different about them, and while the EXS itself doesn't seem to mind, the Grand Piano sample from Jam Pack 4 kills it every time.

(Also, is anyone else having problems with it not finding samples during import that are right there in front of it?)

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I know MIDI Life. But they've had a year since the announcement and released 4 new products in the meantime... Unfortunately I think Russ' mock scenario with the R&D team may be too true.

Look at Ableton Live... Man, thier product is strong... Its fairly much like a tank.. I think that these guys are doing the right thing.

They make a limited product line and get people to really focus on it, and make it bulletproof. That's not to say that ithey don't have an occasional stumble. But they're responsive to customers problems and issues and release fixes quickly. That damn German engineering does hold up well.

Sunsinger

Well, maybe MOTU is too big for it's britches? Of course, we all know they job out stuff to Euro companies and are probably at their mercy when it comes to delivery. One also wonders how politics plays into that? And while we're verboten to discuss politics on this board, they may well be a factor in selivery of software by MOTU. Wasn't Symphonic Instrument developed in Germany?

Just another log for the fire...

[sunsinger]

Maybe, but I doub't Symphonic was by Ableton... And I'm sure that there are German, English, or other international companies that the Motu story happens to...
I'm just holding up the business model... It seems like a sensible one.

Every company that I've seen, that gets too big, goes through the same thing... Rapid expansion, poor quality control, and lousy customer service.

Maybe it pays to temper growth with the ability to match original quality control standards, and a goal not forget who made you grow in the first place... You and Me...

Sunsinger

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Maybe, but I doub't Symphonic was by Ableton... And I'm sure that there are German, English, or other international companies that the Motu story happens to...
I'm just holding up the business model... It seems like a sensible one.

Every company that I've seen, that gets too big, goes through the same thing... Rapid expansion, poor quality control, and lousy customer service.

Maybe it pays to temper growth with the ability to match original quality control standards, and a goal not forget who made you grow in the first place... You and Me...

Sunsinger

Or maybe it is time for MOTU to spilt into more distinct divisions? Frankly, I get worried when I call tech support one day on M5 and the next on the 128 (or whatever) and always get the same guy. He connot possibly know all that there is to know and basically reads from a database.

I am not trying to trash tech support here. I could NEVER deal with guys like us all day long We're too demanding and our backs are usually up against a wall to meet a deadline. But it does seem that MOTU might want to consider divesting a bit or at least get different divisions going (if they don't already - it doesn't appear that they do).

I use this example often, but look at the way Bose does things. Their customer service is probably the best in the country if not the world and thier products are excellent. I recently bought a PAS System and while I loved it, it simply was not right for my applications. They took back everything, picked up shipping in both directions and even sent out a replacement system to be sure it wasn't defective. We're taking a $2500 system here!

Ultimately, it is customer service that keeps companies in business (assuming their product is high quality - that is a given.)

"I come to praise MOTU, not to bury it..." Please forgive the slings and arrows. I REALLY REALLY REALLY want MOTU to thrive.

[gblock]

Look at Ableton Live... Man, thier product is strong... Its fairly much like a tank.. I think that these guys are doing the right thing.

Everybody has a hard ship now and then; however, broad quality control problems are a sign of underlying problems in quality control during development, not just a broken QA process.

And the recent version of Live? Not so bulletproof. But designed with a different kind of process - and a different development model. Ableton's job spec for a programmer?

"A keen sense for the aesthetics of code, documentation, and user interfaces"

[gblock]

I use this example often, but look at the way Bose does things.

It's different. They make "things". Things have a huge amount of cost to develop and prototype, but then you've got to engineer for mass production after that. Things can't be updated once they're out of the factory, so there's a lot that people who make things won't do that people who make software will.

Honestly? Your gamecube's version of Zelda the Wind Waker has more in common with Bose's products than anything produced by any "ordinary" software company. Things need to work the first time, or the thing not only cost money to produce and throw away, the thing cost money to RMA back to the company and to supply a replacement thing to the customer. Getting a thing wrong costs huge amounts of money.

And the cost of getting software wrong? I often say that the difference between producing a thing and producing software is that a thing costs the manufacturer when it's broken; software only costs its users when its broken.

Not entirely true, but less wrong than you might think.