MIDI recording late

[smashprod]

Running DP11 under Mojave, with all my VIs n a second machine running VSL Ensemble Pro 7, and am running into a problem that I need help troubleshooting. When I record MIDI notes into my sequence, they are always recorded a little late and I have to slide them into place. Sometimes I have forgotten and left a plug-in on the master bus that introduces some delay, like the Waves L3, but there is nothing on my master bus. I haven’t changed anything in my set up. Is there anything else I should be looking for, especially anything that would introduce delay?? I set the buffers low in my VSL Ensemble Pro plug-ins so that the sounds are responsive. Yesterday I was on a jingle so I couldn’t take the time to troubleshoot, and was sliding MIDI notes all day. Would love to deal with this before the next job comes in.

[smashprod]

P.S. I use an old KX-88 and MIDI interface, not a modern USB controller.

[HCMarkus]

After you re-boot your computer, if issues continue, two areas to look into:

"Sync Recorded Notes to MIDI Patch Thru" preference

Configure Audio System>Fine-tune Audio I/O Timing from the Setup menu.

Note, too, that in an earlier version of DP I observed that changing buffer size with tracks record-enabled will result in misplaced audio/MIDI. Fix is to disable, then re-enable recording on each track. I reported this to MOTU, but don't know if it has been (or will be) addressed.

[smashprod]

Will try those ideas when I'm back in the studio. Wondering if I should replace my ancient M-Audio MidiSport 2x2 with a MoTU MIDI interface (Microlite)? Don't they claim to record MIDI more accurately?

[HCMarkus]

Try the settings in DP first. Pretty nominal timing differences to be expected with a different MIDI Interface, although surprises seem ever ready to... uh... surprise us.

[smashprod]

Tried fiddling with the "Sync recorded MIDI to Patch Thru" preference. When I unchecked it, DP placed my notes BEFORE the beat. Pretty badly in fact. So I re-checked it, and my notes were now just slightly late, as they had been before. I'm not crazy about fine-tuning the Audio I/O timing. Getting the MIDI notes to record with the exact timing I play them shouldn't be guesswork. Anything else I can try?

BTW, I tried a second MIDI controller. Same result.

[smashprod]

Just talked to Travis at MoTU. Seems it's the most obvious thing of all-- the Buffer Size setting in Configure Hardware Driver. I've been using 1048 because my template is so massive. I put it down to 128 and the delay went away.

I had hoped that DP11 had some precise way of compensating how it places recorded MIDI notes depending on the buffer setting (moving them ahead in time as needed), but apparently it doesn't. So, since I don't have the option of using low buffer settings, I'm going to have to use Fine-tune Audio I/O Timing. An imprecise option, but the best I can do, it seems!

[bayswater]

I had hoped that DP11 had some precise way of compensating how it places recorded MIDI notes depending on the buffer setting (moving them ahead in time as needed)

It certainly should. No way changing buffer size is a reasonable solution to this problem, and I wouldn’t let the ticket close at that point. I use various buffer sizes depending on the stage and type of a project, and don’t experience problems with MIDI timing. There must be something in the details of your setup that is doing this.

[smashprod]

I've been trying to use "Fine-tune Audio I/O Timing", but changing the playback offset doesn't seem to have any effect. Neither a setting of 10,000 nor a setting of -10,000 makes any difference. Since I'm using a buffer size of 1048, I would have thought that a setting of 1048 would have solved the sync problem. What am I overlooking?

The sync is not WAY out, it's just a little soft/late, but there is no excuse for it not being rock-solid, like the audio. Does anyone else have these problems?

[Kurt Cowling]

I know you said there are no plugins on the Master Fader. Just to make sure… bypassing plugins on the Master Fader is not enough to eliminate the issue. They must be removed or set up a second Master Fader with no plugins and disable the one with plugins (by temporarily changing the output bundle).

[smashprod]

No, there are no plugins at all on the master fader.

Also I tried setting up a new, plain vanilla sequence-- no busses, just one Vienna Ensemble Pro plugin to send MIDI to the slave computer and a MIDI track. Same exact problem.

[Kurt Cowling]

So you’re recording these MIDI notes in real time to a click? Any chance the click is late and you’re playing to that? Try recording the click back into a track and see where it lines up. Just a thought.

[smashprod]

Same thing happens when I record MIDI to preexisting audio tracks.

[James Steele]

No, there are no plugins at all on the master fader.

Hmmm that’s interesting. I like to put Slate FG-X on my master fader and that might explain why I feel a lag also when recording MIDI.

[HCMarkus]

I have noticed DP places notes recorded at different buffer sizes at different places relative to the time played. So when adding MIDI parts with a big buffer, adjustments are often required. I typically record parts that require tight timing with a small buffer; otherwise, too hard to play the parts properly due to delay in propagation of sound. With less critical parts, like pads (which often require time shifting to sound properly anyway) the delay is not as much of an issue. But that is a work around.

I concur with bayswater:

No way changing buffer size is a reasonable solution to this problem, and I wouldn’t let the ticket close at that point.

Pretty sure this is an issue with DP (I'm on 10.13). Although I haven't tested lately, my recollection is consistent with what smashprod is reporting. It needs to be addressed.