DP 10.1 Where has 'Insert Loop' gone?

[beatzart]

Thanks for all the input guys, I was frustrated by the loss of the loop command (hence a web search landing me on this post), but have started using the new load to clips function, and finding it quite good. The ability to drag the edge of the clip to extend/reduce repetitions (albeit in seq window, would be good if this could be accessed in track window) seems like an enhancement over the old loop function.

[Spoff]

I find the new way of looping quite poor compared to how it used to be in the Event List, which I frequently work in. The old way I wouldn't leave the window and just go up to the + and add a loop and set the beginning and end. Done. The big thing is then I could continue to see the notes in the loop and edit them while it was looping, which now I can't do. I mean I guess I can not pack it into a clip and instead use the main controls to loop the sequence, then when I find what I like pack it into a clip. And if I change my mind and want to edit the notes again then unpack the clip. Definitely worse. Why remove this feature? It also makes it just hard to see what is going on in the Event List. I wonder if it was necessary due to the way clips are working behind the scenes.

Also, and please don't misunderstand as I have no problems with math, but this adds the extra step of instead of just saying repeat this 8 times one now has to calculate the numbers of beats or bars in order to do this, which takes extra time. For instance if one had a 1|360 long phrase, one used to be able to just type in 8 to repeat it 8 times, but now one must figure out manually what 1 and 3/4 beats times 8 is so that the loop ends at the right place.

Also the old way let me type in numbers before and beyond the note values, meaning if the notes started at 35|3|000 and ended at 38|2|120 I could just type in to start the loop at 35|1|000 and end it at 39|1|000, leaving space a the end of the loop to make it repeat once every 4 bars, but how does one do that now as when one packs the clip doesn't it start and end when the notes do?

I have been with MOTU since or before Performer 5 (before Digital Performer existed) and have used this feature extensively. Please MOTU put this back.

[Spoff]

I submitted this to MOTU as well in hopes they will consider bringing this helpful feature back.

[Kellog]

Still following this 'new way to loop' situation. I'm getting used to the new clips or repeat way of doing things. I just wish they (MOTU Support/development or whoever) would simply tell us WHY this had to be. Did the new clips programming somehow make the old loop options incompatible with the software? Just tell us 'hey guys/gals the new 'improvements' broke some things, very sorry. But you've got Ableton-ish workflow available now!". Which I don't really need/want AFAIK. I agree with some who've shared that all of the Ableton-y workflow examples sound like music styles I am not into- same with NI's Maschine. Nuthin against peoples tastes, just not my style(s).
I too reached out to support and formally requested they bring back the old way. They said 'I will note/log your request'-which I appreciate. Then they offered assistance in how to work the new way, which I appreciate. But they didn't say "hey we can't bring the old way back, its broken in service of 'evolution" or something similar. For me the not knowing is troubling.
Ok feels good to just say that. And I still love DP.

[gjensse]

I am using the Set Loop command all the time when working on MIDI sequences. I cannot believe that they decided to remove this. Going back to DP9.

[Michael Canavan]

Still following this 'new way to loop' situation. I'm getting used to the new clips or repeat way of doing things. I just wish they (MOTU Support/development or whoever) would simply tell us WHY this had to be. Did the new clips programming somehow make the old loop options incompatible with the software? Just tell us 'hey guys/gals the new 'improvements' broke some things, very sorry. But you've got Ableton-ish workflow available now!". Which I don't really need/want AFAIK. I agree with some who've shared that all of the Ableton-y workflow examples sound like music styles I am not into- same with NI's Maschine. Nuthin against peoples tastes, just not my style(s).
I too reached out to support and formally requested they bring back the old way. They said 'I will note/log your request'-which I appreciate. Then they offered assistance in how to work the new way, which I appreciate. But they didn't say "hey we can't bring the old way back, its broken in service of 'evolution" or something similar. For me the not knowing is troubling.
Ok feels good to just say that. And I still love DP.

This was a while ago, but I want to address it. Looping is looping. Whether you pull up a DP 9 Loop tool and or the key command for the pop up window, or you use a contextual tool that appears at the right side of a clip. I've used Ableton Live for straight rock music as well as electronic etc. Any pop song type format (all music that isn't Jazz or Classical really), can be done using sub sequences, which is essentially what Clips and the Clips window are. The fact that electronic musicians used DAWs like Ableton Live doesn't somehow make it only useful for electronic music. It would be easy enough to do in DP, but I used to use Live when writing as a footpedal controllable drum and bass player machine, so when working out parts for a song I could see how long I thought a particular section should go before the transition to the next part. At some point it all ends up in the Sequence Editor etc. but Clips are useful in the beginning of a song when you're trying out different parts.

I think it's obvious there were scenarios in testing that showed that parsed MIDI loops had conflicts with loops in Clips. It's also obvious that DP 10.1 in terms of loops, clips, and the way that parsed or free range MIDI is going to work alongside Clips is, well? in a transition stage.

Personally this is the vision I see going forward, Clips are going to be where you get loops, that's a given, and free range MIDI isn't going to loop. The real issues are getting it similar enough to the old way to make most of you happy, and getting it integrated into the heart of DP to make me and others like me happy. Something as simple as selecting free range MIDI in the sequence, and having a pop up menu that allows you to turn it into a Clip and loop it, so at the same time facilitating old and new methods workflow wise. Clips should be editable in regular MIDI edit windows. This is a huge What the heck? moment with Clips to me. Clips should like other DAWs that do this, show up in these edit windows (MIDI piano roll, Drum and Notation) with 'brackets' in the timeline showing clip start and end points.

I think those two improvements would help to integrate Clips and make looping with them painless for users that miss the old loop method. beyond that, right now in the Event list you can adjust the loop times like you could with the old loop method, and getting used to the key command for packing into Clips and unpacking, is a good idea.

[flextone]

They copied the worst part from Ableton, leaving out the good stuff IMO. Clips might be useful down the road, but I miss the old looping method too. Oh well...

R

[stubbsonic]

The pre-Clips version of the set loop gave you tick-level control of the loop start and end points that aren't tied to any kind of auto-parsed region or barlines or beats. Does Clips also do that?

I was starting to inch toward updating to 10, but this is making me pause again.

[stubbsonic]

I see that there's a Scenes panel with clips in it, and there's a track-based clip queue. Is there just a repository/list of current clips that are not yet assigned to playback in a scene or track?

On my previous post, I see that the only thing lacking in the clips model is the ability to set a number of repeats or infinite-- which must be done in other ways.

[gaijin]

Why can't MOTU leave the insert loop function in, and still move on and have the clip looping???? I am in the middle of a project and changing my workflow on a project midstream is very problematic. Please keep the looping function. DP is great! If you want to use clips use LIve!

[stubbsonic]

This goes against MOTU's usual mode of leaving "legacy" functions intact. Still, I suppose they may put other tweaks in. I saw a "double" option that seems promising.