Audio Express - how to change bit rate?

[alexsye]

New to Audio Express and Motu in general...

I don't see a way to change the bit rate of the Audio Express from Windows (nor directly from the interface too). Not only that, from Windows Sound's settings is impossible to choose all the available sample frequencies offered by the Audio Express (these can be selected for the hardware)...Is there a problem with the Windows/Motu drivers? I'm aware all these options are selectable from the DAW's Asio drivers...
I have an old Edirol UA-4FX which allows me to choose the bit rate from Asio and from the Windows Sound settings (and all the sample rates as expected)...why this seems impossible on the Audio Express? Is this the same with other Motu products? Same issues on the Mac OS?

Any help appreciated.

[mikehalloran]

This is one of those areas where the Mac and Windows are different. Start here:

https://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/fire ... de_Win.pdf

[alexsye]

I read the user manual before...and even after a second check (and try to find anything about "Bit Rate" specifically and found nothing)...I can't find the answer I'm looking for.
Simply said - I can't change the bit rate - not from the hardware nor from the software (unless I use a DAW)...let's say I want to listen to music recorded at 24 bit resolution from the headphone's output of the Audio Express - now from windows 10 I have only 16 bit options (and only 44 and 48khz). On my old Edirol I was able to select the bit rate (and sample frequency) at please (then I assume good drivers and hardware should adjust this automatically - just in case one switch the wrong sample rate or resolution...).
I haven't yet experimented the Audio Express fully to see if this is a real issue or a mere "glitch" due to Windows - it is more a question of "control" which seems is somehow missing when using the Audio Express...it's seems "untidy" to say the least - some kind of "not quite right" which doesn't help ...not a good impression (as such I hope and I'm more inclined to think this isn't a major issue).

I've checked with someone who uses a Focusrite and he's able to see all declared bit rates and sample rates from the sound settings in windows. So, we can discuss and analyze the differences between Windows and Mac; but apparently other makes are able to overcome these Windows' limitations and present an expected behaviour from the drivers - that's why when I open the sound settings of my Edirol I find the expected list - while Motu is doing something different and I see a much limited list of sample rates and bit resolutions (from those declared) - which one do you prefer?

[CharlzS]

I'm pretty sure this is by design, but I don't know why MOTU would limit the system drivers. Some of the drivers are very old and they may have had legit reasons for the limitations. This is the same issue I have with my 828mkII on Windows - only 44.1k and 48k at 16 bit depth for the Windows drivers. ASIO offers the full compliment to whatever is using it. My 828mkII is attached via firewire with no other options. If you have not tried USB, maybe try that. It may offer different options. My MOTU M4 offers all combinations the unit is capable of for system audio so the modern drivers appear fully functional.

[alexsye]

Thanks for your feedback...

By design? Then why Motu doesn't come with an explanation at least to clear any doubt? I'm finding out similar gripes regarding the Motu drivers for the Audio Express on Winsows and maybe things are better with a Mac OS.

I might be a bit of a control freak but these inconsistencies are a bit of a distraction - at these early stages I haven't yet performer a proper recording with any DAW but not even being able to set the bit resolution for my own audio/music collection is a bit disappointing - am I not free to choose any bit resolution and sample frequencies as I please? So basically there is a limitation: other brands allows to use the audio interface for e.g. audiophile purposes - just listening pre-recorded audio at high definition and also recording audio via ASIO on a DAW - while MOTU Audio Express (or other MOTU models apparently) do only the second function...is this by design? (btw - even my old M-Audio Audiophile 192 card allows setting any bit resolution...including 32 bit - with the Audio Express I'm stuck at 16bit audio listening?).

Meanwhile, I have only tested the AE (AE = AudioExpress from now) on windows - both options firewire and USB2 also tested (same results)...and tried the same on another system (a Lenovo thinkpad). What about Mac OS? Same experience there? I've been contemplating of buying a MacBook Pro for audio recording for a while...maybe there is a good excuse now...(definitely FireWire seems a better option than USB2 - but my PC allows both anyway - the problem seems to be Windows and/or MOTU).

[mikehalloran]

Ok, you're never going to find "bit rate" because there is no such thing. The term is "bit depth" but the manual uses only bit most of the time. The Audio Express supports 96K Sample Rate and up to 32 Bit Depth.

On Windows, like Mac, there are a number of ways to control both; some ways involve the app you are using while others involve control panels. Mac and Win are different in this regard and without knowing more, we are not going to be able to help. If you're using Digital Performer or you are on a Mac, I can help but you don't appear to be doing either.

That said, Sample shows up 88 times in the searchable pdf file while Bit appears 44 times. Searchable pdf files are your friend here.

Complaining about the drivers is not going to fix this for you.

[alexsye]

what's the fix then?...there is nothing in the manual to explain why the choice on windows sound settings is limited to 16bit! (and why other manufacturers did a better job than Motu at that).

This is an inconsistency which isn't desirable nor expected and not in line with the reputation os such a brand - it deserved to be resolved one way or the other - Motu got it wrong...

If this isn't a driver issue what else? Design choice? Sorry, I don't buy that.
I think Motu should come out and clear the waters - it's about their reputation (I've read other similar posts in other forums - I'm not the only one complaining). Let's say the drivers for the AE and some others models of that time aren't satisfactory (others brands did a better job anyway)...and that MOTU got it wrong and managed to catch up with their latest models? (sounds plausible to me).

My only hope was that things were better with a Mac - can anyone confirm? limited to 16bit audio listening also with a Mac?

[CharlzS]

I'm just guessing here, but probably has something to do with supporting multichannel audio in the Windows drivers (DTS, Dolby). Do you have the Supported Formats tab in the device Playback properties? IIRC,16bit was the commercial standard for both CD and DVD audio. Any professional needs (24bit and higher sample rates) are covered by the ASIO drivers. I do not believe there is a fix and that this is by design.

[mikehalloran]

I exited the Windows clown car with its many audio drivers many years ago.

From pages 10 and 11 the manual:

All audio is carried to the computer in a 24-bit data stream.…

16-BIT AND 24-BIT RECORDING
The Audio Express system handles all data with a 24-bitsignalpath,regardlessoftheI/Oformat.You can record and play back 16-bit or 24-bit audio files at any supported sample rate via any of the Audio Express’s analog or digital inputs and outputs. 24- bit audio files can be recorded with any compatible host application that supports 24-bit recording.

The problem is neither the AE nor the MOTU drivers. It is either your app or your lack of knowledge re Windows and audio.

Again, if you were using Digital Performer, many could help you including MOTU support. There’s still a way.

If your unit is registered with MOTU, submit a Tech Link and ask for a license for Performer Lite. It’s free and, if you ask in the morning, they’ll have it added by the afternoon. If not registered, you need to do that first. Once the license is in your account, download and setup instructions will be there as well. You will also be eligible for MOTU support including phone if necessary.

Till then.

[alexsye]

again...by design? (this is self-denial) - if so, there should be a clear explanation - let's see if it comes (from what I see on other forums those at MOTU are buring their head in the sand...).

The 5 channels (surround and subwoofer?) not in my case - a simple pair of quality headphones plugged on an audio interface and not being able to increase the bit resolution for high definition listening (sorry I think this isn't acceptable).
This is an example of "overlooking" or not proper planning = bad drivers (while other brands did plan better).
This is my first MOTU experience - I've just scratched the surface and got a very negative impression and not sure if I want to go on and do anything more serious with my AE - is this what MOTU planned by design?

Perversely, I'm tempted to join the gang and declare the phantasmagoric qualities about this brand - so, I'd get a better price selling my AE on Ebay...

[alexsye]

to mikehalloran...
do you work for MOTU?

[alexsye]

to mikehalloran:

are you trying to induce me to buy another MOTU product after such a disappointing start?

apparently all audio is dealt at 24bit in MOTU's Audio Express - fine....but they aren't capable of writing a driver to show that in the windows?! While others can...enough said.

[alexsye]

I'll check again this discussion later...let's say 14 days?. If MOTU is a serious brand as they appear to be they should come with a proper satisfying answer and maybe a solution too. if not I'll sell the AE for good on Ebay or Reverb (anyone interested?).
By design? They might just have lost a client "by design"...

[FMiguelez]

This board is not owned by MOTU. It's owned by James Steele (and Doris, of course), who are regular users like you and I.

Mr. Halloran isn't a MOTU employee either, and threatening MOTU to sell your gear will have the same effect as a droplet in a lake.

It sounds to me fellow users helped you figure out how to do it, yet you haven't seen it. Don't throw a tantrum; I can tell you from experience it won't work. As for the "design" question, you'd have to ask a MOTU engineer by writing to MOTU (check their website).

How are those MOTU sales coming, Mike?

[alexsye]

others tried to help? They gave some feedback that's all (and I thanked them too - at least I'm not the only one).
but the sad true is....there isn't any help coming here...only wishy washy justifications - logic is black and white you can't mess with it...

Mike suggested to read the manual...then he came with an answer?! and note the RTFM too - which looks the more ridiculous because it only adds to the confusion and no - pulling wools on one's eyes sure doesn't help - it's just another red herring, a desperate attempt to circle the square (I bet he works at Motu's marketing department).
Again you can't mess with logic for Mike hasn't provide any answer on why with a MOTU interface one can't change the bit resolution at will (unless one is in a Asio environment coupled with a DAW), while a Focusrite or Maudio or Edirol user can (so it's not a Windows issue - since these brands found a way and MOTU hasn't). Only we know that with a Motu AE we are stuck to 24bit?! Is that the answer we were expecting? Absolutely not...and if one needs only 16 bit? And what about all the sample rates...from windows I can only choose 44 and 48khz?

Apparently these oddity happens also on a Mac? - Still waiting for a confirmation...

Rest to consider if these issues are simply a question of "superficial labelling" (we can safely ignore the "16 bit" because we know the AE always work on 24 bit? or maybe some more serious issues - in fact, I've just read other posts in other forums which do suggest glitches and inconsistencies.

and no...this isn't a treat...just an invitation to come clear - then this forum isn't owned by Motu by I'm sure they come and read time to time (and yes about time to send a direct email).