Apple Silicon event forthcoming

[Michael Canavan]

And her it comes. All rumors 100% point to Apple Silicon Macs being announced.
Looks like a laptop from the VR animation that accompanies this announcement. I'm slated to be everyones beta tester. the 2012 here is a a mediocre VEP master, fans jack up to 11 when I use it as one. I'm hoping for an early port of the VEP MAS plug in.
https://www.apple.com/apple-events/

[Michael Canavan]

Rumors are it's going to be laptops at first, it's safe to bet the 13" Air and Pro are getting AS, and Bloomberg at least, believe the 16" model is going to as well.

IMO I think it would make sense for them to pop out a Mac Mini with AS in it as well.

[mikehalloran]

…
IMO I think it would make sense for them to pop out a Mac Mini with AS in it as well.

Agreed since that's what the rental units for developers are.

If the MBP is announced, it should have some version of the T2, I would think.

Probably wishful thinking to hope for the long-rumored iMac Pro refresh. Not sure I could afford it this year, anyway.

[Michael Canavan]

…
IMO I think it would make sense for them to pop out a Mac Mini with AS in it as well.

Agreed since that's what the rental units for developers are.

If the MBP is announced, it should have some version of the T2, I would think.

Probably wishful thinking to hope for the long-rumored iMac Pro refresh. Not sure I could afford it this year, anyway.

The rumors are all about the laptop line. Most people think the Air and 13" MBP are coming first. Bloomberg has predicted the 16" model as well. People on Macrumors etc. are arguing for the 12" return, which is odd since it wasn't successful for Apple. Plus, IMO it's very possible they go back to a 15" MBP, since IMO the 16" was due to thermal throttling on the 15" with the same chip in it.

I'm due for a new laptop, so I'm in, and I 100% hope for the 15 or 16" coming this cycle. Of course it might be months before MOTU gets DP native on it, but I have high hopes.

[mgraham]

I'm in the position where I need a new Mac pretty soon, and this seems like exactly the wrong time to buy one.

Buying for the future probably means buying an Apple Silicon machine.

But who knows how long it will be before all the plugins I use are compatible and stable? Plus, I'm using Komplete 9 (with no urgent desire to upgrade). Somehow I suspect NI is going to force me to upgrade to Komplete 13 if I want Apple Silicon compatibility...

[mikehalloran]

I'm in the position where I need a new Mac pretty soon, and this seems like exactly the wrong time to buy one.
…

The projected timeline before Apple silicon replaces everything is 2–3 years depending on whom you believe, Apple (2) or everyone else (2 is wishful thinking). The 2020 iMac was released after the Apple Silicon announcement and there are more Intel based new Macs in the pipeline. The 10 core build of that new iMac should make for a pretty good DP workstation.

Hardware is supported for 3 years if you buy AppleCare. OS support is 3 years per California law and international agreements. This means security updates and bug fixes.

The time to be worried about obsolescence is 3 years from now. If you need a new Mac, buy one.

The 2012 Macs become obsolete in November 2022 years when Catalina is no longer officially supported—doesn't mean they won't still work, however. We don't know about 2013 and later since they will run Big Sur—this means 2023 at the earliest.

[mgraham]

The time to be worried about obsolescence is 3 years from now. If you need a new Mac, buy one.

I'm happily using a 2015 Mac Book Pro now. I can still run the latest DAWs and plugins on this machine. If I weren't forced to give it up (for completely unrelated reasons), then I would continue to use it for another 1-2 years.

4.5K is a lot of money to spend on a replacement with an uncertain future.

If I could be sure that an Intel Mac would last another 6-7 years (including - crucially - the continued ability to natively run the latest DAW and plugins at the end of that time period), then I would buy the computer I need today. But only 3 years of guaranteed use makes it too expensive.

I wasn't around for the PPC => Intel switch, but from what little I've read, it seems like the transition was faster than expected and that some software vendors abandoned PPC before the machines themselves were end-of-life.

[nk_e]

The time to be worried about obsolescence is 3 years from now. If you need a new Mac, buy one.

I'm happily using a 2015 Mac Book Pro now. I can still run the latest DAWs and plugins on this machine. If I weren't forced to give it up (for completely unrelated reasons), then I would continue to use it for another 1-2 years.

4.5K is a lot of money to spend on a replacement with an uncertain future.

If I could be sure that an Intel Mac would last another 6-7 years (including - crucially - the continued ability to natively run the latest DAW and plugins at the end of that time period), then I would buy the computer I need today. But only 3 years of guaranteed use makes it too expensive.

I wasn't around for the PPC => Intel switch, but from what little I've read, it seems like the transition was faster than expected and that some software vendors abandoned PPC before the machines themselves were end-of-life.

A couple of thoughts:

If past is prologue, Mac DAW support for intel will continue for at least 5 years if not longer. As to the “latest plugins” that’s harder to say. Plug-in developers are smaller shops...Mac only developers may declare intel support legacy sooner if Apple SOC sales really take off. Cross platform developers are less likely to do so I would think since they need to support intel platforms anyway. There will be plugins developed for the new platform that won’t be available for intel of course...

But then there is this news being reported on AppleInsider:

The alleged CPU benchmarks for the "A14X" show a 1.80GHz processor capable of turbo-boosting to 3.10GHz marking this the first custom Apple Silicon to ever clock above 3GHz. It is an 8-core processor with big-little arrangement. The GPU results show 8GB of RAM will be included with the processor.

The single-core benchmark for the "A14X" scored 1634 vs the A12Z at 1118. The A14 scored 1,583 points for single-core tests, which is expected as single-core results shouldn't change much between the regular and "X" models.

The multi-core benchmark for the "A14X" scored 7220 vs the A12Z at 4657. The A14 scored 4198 for multi-core, which means the "A14X" delivers a marked increase in performance in the sorts of environments that the GeekBench test suite focuses on. The additional RAM and graphics capabilities boost this result much higher than the standard iPhone processor.

For comparison, a 16-inch MacBook Pro with the Intel Core-i9 processor scores 1096 for single and 6869 for multi-core tests. This means the alleged "A14X" outperforms the existing MacBook Pro lineup by a notable margin.

Those are some pretty impressive scores for the first SOC out of the gate. A 10 core iMacPro comes in at 1126 and 9431 respectively. So the timeline to “pro performance” maybe even shorter. I think the real constraint will be whether or not your particular full suite of tools has made the transition. I am not anticipating having things settle down in that regard for about 3 years.

But in the end, I agree with Mike. If you need something now, you need it now.

I was faced with a similar conundrum recently, and instead of going whole hog for a new MacPro like I had planned, I settled for a refurbed iMacPro instead. It was a lot cheaper, solved my performance issues, I’ll get at least 5 or more years out of it, and life is just...better. It was a nice performance bump from my old 5,1. (Since then the new iMac was released which offers much the same raw performance for even less.)

So, if you really need something now, IMHO you should consider taking the plunge...Good luck whatever you decide!

FWIW, YMMV, etc.

[mikehalloran]

The time to be worried about obsolescence is 3 years from now. If you need a new Mac, buy one.

I'm happily using a 2015 Mac Book Pro now. I can still run the latest DAWs and plugins on this machine. If I weren't forced to give it up (for completely unrelated reasons), then I would continue to use it for another 1-2 years.

4.5K is a lot of money to spend on a replacement with an uncertain future.

If I could be sure that an Intel Mac would last another 6-7 years (including - crucially - the continued ability to natively run the latest DAW and plugins at the end of that time period), then I would buy the computer I need today. But only 3 years of guaranteed use makes it too expensive.

I wasn't around for the PPC => Intel switch, but from what little I've read, it seems like the transition was faster than expected and that some software vendors abandoned PPC before the machines themselves were end-of-life.

Nonsense. False argument. End of life is determined by when a computer can no longer do what you need. For me, it’s the one app that must be upgraded every year: TurboTax.

My 2002 G5 had OS support through October 2010 as did all of them (through early 2006). Ok, they’re limited to DP 7 but people are still using them — I help a couple of church musicians using these for DP. I replaced mine in 2010 because of the heat but all my apps were still compatible with Leopard. Official EOL on the 2009–2011 iMac is this month when High Sierra support runs out but very few apps require Mojave or later so why replace a perfectly good machine if it’s performing as you like? As I’ve mentioned, EOL on the 2012s is 2022 but the 2013 and later is unknown.

The shortest hardware life I experienced was my Mac Plus. In 1991, MacInTax would no longer run and I had to buy a Performa that would. That was 5 years of service. Adjusted for inflation, that was the most expensive Mac I ever bought including the Refurb 18 Core iMac Pro I bought last month. Of course I wasn’t happy to have to replace it but I did get 5 years. Everything else has lasted longer.

What’s uncertain at this moment is if the new Apple silicon will run pro apps like DP and related plugins out of the box. Oh, we know they’ll catch up but when?

Of course you should wait till the announcement in a few days to see what Apple says. If the next machine is going to do what you need and you can get it in time, then order one up and tell us all about it.

If not, order what you need. The Refurb Store has some great bargains at the moment. No iMacs or Minis today but plenty of MacBook Pros and iMac Pros.
https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/ ... acbook-pro

[bayswater]

I'm in the position where I need a new Mac pretty soon, and this seems like exactly the wrong time to buy one.

Buying for the future probably means buying an Apple Silicon machine.

I'm inclined to agree with you. If all you need to do is keep doing what you do now, it's not clear why you'd need a new Mac unless it's failing and not easy to fix. Why do you need a new Mac?

When you pay for a new Mac, you might expect it to keep up with the new stuff made possible by updates in OS versions, and to be able to run new software that won't run on older OS versions.

Other than 2-3 years of security updates, I would't assume Apple will keep the Intel Macs fresh unless it's easy to do it. If it comes down to choosing between OS updates that enhance the new Macs, and updates that keep old Macs moving along, the decision is pretty obvious.

[HCMarkus]

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/02/ap ... e-silicon/

At last, the X-Mac?

[mikehalloran]

I'm in the position where I need a new Mac pretty soon, and this seems like exactly the wrong time to buy one.

Buying for the future probably means buying an Apple Silicon machine.

But who knows how long it will be before all the plugins I use are compatible and stable? Plus, I'm using Komplete 9 (with no urgent desire to upgrade). Somehow I suspect NI is going to force me to upgrade to Komplete 13 if I want Apple Silicon compatibility...

That new Mini looks really hot. Especially since the maxed out version is only $1,700 (16GB RAM, 2TB SSD).

If the Apple Event is to be believed, between the integrated 16GB RAM and Rosetta II, DP ought to kick butt on it — and it will be shipping next week.

The 13" MBP @2,300 and Air @ $2,050 likewise.

Who wants to be first in?

The deal killer for me is that the SSDs max out at 2TB. Were that not the case, I'd be ordering the Mini and selling my iMP while I can still get good money for it. The $1,400 LG 5K display would be same as my iMP. One of those new TB4 hubs would likely give me the ports I need for my twin 4K displays. I'd make money on the deal.

If only the Mini was available with 4TB or 8TB storage onboard. But it's not. I suppose I'm waiting for the iMac or iMac Pro version of this.

[MW1]

That new Mini looks really hot. Especially since the maxed out version is only $1,700 (16GB RAM, 2TB SSD).

If the Apple Event is to be believed, between the integrated 16GB RAM and Rosetta II, DP ought to kick butt on it — and it will be shipping next week.

The 13" MBP @2,300 and Air @ $2,050 likewise.

Who wants to be first in?

The deal killer for me is that the SSDs max out at 2TB. Were that not the case, I'd be ordering the Mini and selling my iMP while I can still get good money for it. The $1,400 LG 5K display would be same as my iMP. One of those new TB4 hubs would likely give me the ports I need for my twin 4K displays. I'd make money on the deal.

If only the Mini was available with 4TB or 8TB storage onboard. But it's not. I suppose I'm waiting for the iMac or iMac Pro version of this.

Mike

Storage notwithstanding, is it not a concern the new M1 Mini tops out at only 16GB RAM? I notice they have reduced the number of TB3 ports as well.

[mikehalloran]

Mike

Storage notwithstanding, is it not a concern the new M1 Mini tops out at only 16GB RAM? I notice they have reduced the number of TB3 ports as well.

Integrated RAM is supposed to be far more efficient. If we take Apple's word for that, 16GB is more than enough for DP (it is anyway per MOTU). The clue is that you can run much larger LPx and FCPx projects a lot faster — on 16GB Integrated RAM? That Adobe is likewise singing the praises of these new machines for Photoshop, which is a known RAM hog if you want high performance… that gives me confidence.

For what I do, 16GB may be enough. If more is available when the machine I want is released, I'd buy it though. I often have a lot of apps open.

We'll know more as these make their way to the field.

As for TB3, the 2 vs 4 ports is somewhat misleading. There's only one TB3 bus, same as the Intel Mini. You cannot connect any more TB3 peripherals to the M1 Mini than the Intel. USB-C is only a port. Need more ports? Get a hub.

The iMac Pro has 4 ports but 2 TB3 busses — big difference.

There are still some things we don't know such as if DP will have any issues running over Big Sur—MOTU will let us know soon enough. As for the M1, will it run over Big Sur over Rosetta II while MOTU compiles an M1 Native version? I would think that, when DP runs over Big Sur, it should also be compatible with Rosetta II but till that actually happens…

We'll know when we know and you know there will be many threads about this, you know?

[mothra]

I kinda bummed out because just six months ago (not even actually) I paid about $1700 for an i7 Mini with 16GB in it. This would've been the best time for me to jump to a new arch too because I literally only use Logic as a tape deck when Im done with my actual sequencer/synths/sampler/mixer setup nowadays. I could probably get by with just the stock plugins until PSP, Sound Toys, etc all catch up.
Oh well, its 1st gen, this could knock it out of the park, but it could be the bug catcher too. They'll be on fire by the time this Mini isn't supported and I need a new one, good luck and thanks to the guinea pigs this round.