Why I switched to Logic after using DP for 15 years

[James Steele]

Very true, and let me say, thank you for running it, it is a valuble resource! Though I will tell you this, they do read it, because they've sent me private messages before when I was having problems And they fixed them!

Yes, well the flip-side of this whole thing is that I originally intended this as a place for users to help users. However, some have decided that this is also a great place for calling MOTU out publicly and venting until they get the response they desire. That's why I created this forum to move that noise over here.

It bothers me when I see this board exploited with the single purpose of publicly bludgeoning MOTU into addressing a particular user's grievance, and perhaps I cannot articulate just why this is so.

[grimepoch]

I can certainly understand the feelings you get, it's a lot of different contexts. When you've been merrily going along using DP and all of a sudden something is broke and you can't use it, or your clients start getting bothered by what appears to be a breakdown in the system, you get people coming here that are already aggitated and many times explode. I can remember my fustration of getting my Motu 896 and 896HD to work together at the same time. I've still got a few issues, but nothing that affects the final output.

For you, maybe it's that your vision isn't being followed as much as you hoped, that people aren't just using this to share information about what they can do or figure out, but come here and start banding together to complain. In my case, I didn't make a huge stink, but it certainly helped to fix my problem, I just assumed Motu staff checked this site, and apparently, my assumption was right.

I do wish Motu would help us a little more than they do. I've paid way less for other software and received far superior help when there is a problem. But, the reverse is also true, I've paid more and received even less.

Most board services get into this. I wish Motu had a 24/7 online help desk like lulu.com, where if I have a problem, they are there to help in a second. Even if it was subscription based for getting faster turn around, I am sure a lot of people would use it, but cost effective enough that not everyone and their mother are using it.

Motu makes some EXCELLENT products, I'll be the first to admit, if they didn't, I'd be using something else. But I think they need to step a little bit more for the pro user to help out when people's income depends on DP. If you're stuck not being able to use the system, you are stuck.

If only march would get here sooner! Well, actually, February, so I can get my MacBookPro and push it to the limit. I've had a PowerBookG4 for 4 years and it's never died (except a broken hinge I've left broken). RevA MacBook....I'll be getting the AppleCare

[spurn]

Thanks for everybody who joined in the discussion based on my original comments... obviously everyone has different needs, and, though Logic has turned out to be a better platform for me right now, I wish happy and productive music-making to everybody, no matter what software they decide to use!

[MT]

True... however, just in case people don't realize this, this board is not run by MOTU and has no official connection to the company.

Absolutely true, but don't you have to admit there's some implied responsibility for bashing-allowance or whatever when MOTU's website directs its own users here (even with the disclaimer)?

Just a thought. I do appreciate the board as well, and I'm looking forward to DP5, praying that the drum editor issue's fixed by then.

MT

[James Steele]

Absolutely true, but don't you have to admit there's some implied responsibility for bashing-allowance or whatever when MOTU's website directs its own users here (even with the disclaimer)?

Forgive me... I'm normally pretty facile with the English language, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this?

[MT]

James, if you don't get it, you don't get it. I don't want to cause a ruckuss, so I'll move on.

[timcasey]

I read the first post in this thread and felt the same way.

I bought an iMac G5 and upgraded to DP 4.6 in order to use virtual instruments like Mach Five. After the computer arrived, I found out that MOTU's virtual instruments use a dongle. (an expletive goes here, but I can't think of one that wouldn't offend SOMEONE.)

So I'm giving up on MOTU's VIs and intead I'm waiting for Kontact2 to arrive in the mail. In the meantime, I've noticed that DP4.6 and OS Tiger is a lot slower than DP3.11 and OS9 on my old G4. I'll admit it seems to "background process" a bit faster, but as far as bouncing goes, it takes the same amount of time, and EVERYTHING in OSX seems to take a long time to start up. This machine has 2 gigs of ram in it, for goodness' sake. My old G4 had 512 mB and was snappy as all hell.

Maybe it's OSX, maybe it's DP 4.6, but I ain't a happy camper. And, like the original post, I've been using DP daily and praising it's virtues to anyone who'd listen for YEARS....

[grimepoch]

I don't think a dongle really speaks for the program itself, did you just not like Mach5? I own it and I really like it, I also own the Korg Legacy Digital Collection that uses a Dongle as well, and isn't even standard it appears like iLok. But, did you just buy it blindly without asking about the licensing? I don't think they purposely tricked you into getting it. I ask myself one question, does it get the job done for what I am paying for it? In my case, yes. In your case, maybe not, both are valid.

OSX is slower than OS9, I've benchmarked it before with different things compiling code even with all the optimizations. However, for what I gain with OSX, it's worth it to me. There is some sacrifice in an OS when you give it more power. I HATED OS9 and refused to even use a mac until I had something other than their stupid manage your own memory OS.

I could easily complain about NI and their stupid registration system, like the Reaktor 4 CD with the drilled hole in it, and how my mac had a hard time reading the disk. Or that only one system could have Reaktor installed at a time. To me, same difference, but I use Reaktor (5 now) because it does what I need

Best of luck to ya.

[James Steele]

James, if you don't get it, you don't get it. I don't want to cause a ruckuss, so I'll move on.

Maybe you can explain it? Are you saying because MOTU links here that UnicorNation has an obligation to let MOTU bashing go on? I don't see how that has ANY relevance. Sorry.

[Dave Connor]

James, if you don't get it, you don't get it. I don't want to cause a ruckuss, so I'll move on.

Maybe you can explain it? Are you saying because MOTU links here that UnicorNation has an obligation to let MOTU bashing go on? I don't see how that has ANY relevance. Sorry.

I think he's saying that if MOTU directs people here then they should expect people to direct comments to them from here. Which assumes a certain nuetrality at this site. So it's not any kind of criticsm of this site or it's adminstrator. Both parties should be grateful for this site it would seem.

[James Steele]

James, if you don't get it, you don't get it. I don't want to cause a ruckuss, so I'll move on.

Maybe you can explain it? Are you saying because MOTU links here that UnicorNation has an obligation to let MOTU bashing go on? I don't see how that has ANY relevance. Sorry.

I think he's saying that if MOTU directs people here then they should expect people to direct comments to them from here. Which assumes a certain nuetrality at this site. So it's not any kind of criticsm of this site or it's adminstrator. Both parties should be grateful for this site it would seem.

Well, MOTU provides a link here are a courtesy, which I am concerned might be in jeopardy due to this thread. They make it clearn, and so do I, that this is not in any way officially sanctioned or sponsored by MOTU. Fact of the matter is that this is a private board, and I can use my own discretion as to what is or is not acceptable here, regardless of what other think *should* be acceptable.

[giles117]

Touche' James.....

[Shooshie]

Well, now, boys and girls. Isn't it nice that there is a DAW for everyone? I'll be the first to admit that Digital Performer isn't for everyone. It's not for the rock-band-boys with the sunglasses who hang out in the lobby of studios and ask you if you use Pro Tools, and laugh derisively when you say "no." No, Digital Performer would never work for them. It doesn't pack enough dollar power into your coolness-image. And Digital Performer doesn't work for people who like to show off their software as you look over their shoulder while they make windows fly open and closed and draw connections between modules and talk in geeky dialects with lots of acronyms and numbers followed by raised eyebrows. Nope. DP probably isn't the best choice for them. And what about those who like to take you on tours of their facilities and show you the vast cubic footage of networked PC hardware, servers, and render farms all purring away amidst the whining of hundreds of cooling fans? They're probably not big DP users.

But for a few of us, DP works because we think in terms of notes, barlines, tempos, transpositions, hemiola, transitions, fades, timbre, and just plain old "feel." DP is just great for that. I've never quite figured out how to push DP until it crashes the way some people report. It just hasn't been a problem for me. Yeah, it's got some annoying little bugs (fix the MIDI monitoring in the edit windows, MOTU!), but DP is like working with a small ensemble of good musicians. It just does what you want, when you want it.

My tools are for me, not for anyone else. That's the beauty of doing this kind of work. I get to choose the tools that I like to use. Just as a home builder doesn't care what kind of hammer the contractor uses, most musical people don't care what kind of DAW you use if you are able to give them what they want, when they want it, for the budget agreed upon. I like my tools. Central to them is Digital Performer. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

Power to everyone who chooses their tools wisely for their own needs. I've got no gripe with them. For those who let others opinions make those choices for them, I say they get what they deserve. I've got no reason to be unhappy with my choices; I'll stay here.

Shooshie

[billf]

But for a few of us, DP works because we think in terms of notes, barlines, tempos, transpositions, hemiola, transitions, fades, timbre, and just plain old "feel." DP is just great for that. I've never quite figured out how to push DP until it crashes the way some people report. It just hasn't been a problem for me. Yeah, it's got some annoying little bugs (fix the MIDI monitoring in the edit windows, MOTU!), but DP is like working with a small ensemble of good musicians. It just does what you want, when you want it.

Nicely said.

[Michael Canavan]

personally I don't feel that hindered by learning more than one DAW, and see no problem in owning and using DP, Logic, Live, Pro Tools etc.

I started on DP, and got ticked off at 2.7.2, switched to Logic, and got fed up with Logic's bugs in 7. Meanwhile I've been using Live, and DP is just in many ways, a better choice for a sequencer that would integrate with Live.

Both Live and DP are total Pigs compared to Logic, and Logic does have some strong points, the Arrange page in Logic is pretty cool, and the linking and content catching between windows is pretty nice too.

However I feel that I spend much more time in Logic editing MIDI, and the mixer in DP is about the most well thought out mixer of any DAW. Setting up new ReWire configurations in Logic is kind of cool, but pretty involved and far less intuitive than DP....

Anyway, I'm a constant lurker here, it's been years since I used DP, but I just don't see the problems with it as being that big, Logic still occasionally hard crashes on me, hours of work down the drain, and though I won't sell it, I'm willing to bet that once I get a chance to use DP on an Intel mac, I won't be using Logic as much! Maybe as a synth farm! Gigasampler style.