2408 mk2 vs 828 Original, same hardware under the hood?

[part12studios]

Does the MOTU 828 Mk1 (original) pretty much have the same guts as the 2408 mk2? They seem very similar in specs:

- balanced 1/4" in/outs.
- They both have 24-bit / 48khz max
- 8 in / 8 out (not counting 2408's support for more via 324/424)
- being generally released around the same time.

Just curious if the A/D D/A converters were the same chips under the hood.

I have both and was looking to shed the 2408/324 card to free up a PCI slot, but before I make the ultimate move, just wanted to confirm what i suspect is that they share common hardware, simply the 828 was adapted to Firewire instead of requiring a PCI card to interface.

Can anyone confirm?

Thanks,
Caleb

[mikehalloran]

There are a few differences. The 828mkII is 96kHz max, has MIDI, adds a second FW port for daisy-chaining, much better metering, more I/O flexibility and had a lower price new.

Read all about it.
828
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/motu-828

828mkII
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/motu-828-mkII

That said, I wouldn't buy one now unless a) the price was exceptional and b) you could be sure that the owner never made it the I/O interface for a Mac or PC. The very last units made were released in early 2007 and I bought one before the mkIII was announced at NAMM—13 1/2 years ago. These get old under constant use with burnt FW ports & resistors, bulging power supply caps, bad screens and backlights being the usual culprits. That said, my buddy with the G5 picked one up in beautiful shape on eBay for $160 shipped.

Mine, for example, is only hooked up when I'm tracking in my office a few times a year. Last time it was out was to see if it worked under Catalina — like a champ. It's in great shape but still 13 1/2 years old. I am unlikely to use it again now that I have other interfaces including an M4 and MTP-AV USB if I ever need 5 Pin MIDI.

As soon as the space becomes more valuable, both the 828mkII and MTP-AV will hit eBay. Seeing how they both work great over Catalina, this is probably the best time.

The 828 Hybrid is a much better buy since MOTU still offers it. 192kHz, FW and USB 2. This means that, if something goes wrong past warranty, it's still eligible for the $99 refurb exchange into the foreseeable future.

[part12studios]

i was talking about the 828 mk1 (original), yes the 828 mk2 is a step up for sure!

i'm comparing the 2408 mk2 vs the 828 (original)

my 2408 (have two actually to have 16 in/out, but deemed overkill) work great, but the precious PCI slot in my Quicksilver is needed for a SCSI card.

I feel like the 2408 mk2 vs the 828 (original) are the same under the hood, but wondered if anyone could confirm that.

I know the later excellent MOTU gear could do higher sample rates and such, but i'm actually trying to stick with older hardware because it works under OS9.. later hardware is OSX only (even if it's OLD osx)

I recently got my hands on a 2ghz G5 tower as well that I want to play with some, but first I want to do some pepsi challenges between:

Profire 2626
vs
828 (original) or 2408 mk2

why? because word is that the profire 2626 has some of the same A/D chips as some $2500 apogee interface out there (minus the nicer preamps).

Really the other kinda bigger question was really.. can I tell a difference when I record at 48khz vs 96khz vs 192 khz.. the profire can do 192khz..

i'm just surfing bargain hardware. i got the profire 2626 for $80.. i got the 828 for $60..

Sadly the one drawback to all this is the profire wouldn't work under anything older than Leopard.. so i have my quicksilver currently set to dual boot to leopard and OS9..

In the end if I really like the results using the profire vs the 828.. i'll probably move forward to leopard and likely move up to the G5.. and keep the Quicksilver around for legacy hardware / software..

[bayswater]

Note that if you have a 324 card, you might have to replace it with a 424 card to use the G5.

[part12studios]

thanks for that pointer, I was not aware of that. However, that's another reason i'm kinda jumping ship on that.. because have you price checked a 424? Insane prices.. i guess they are that rare and that good? Not sure I understand what all the fuss is. It's what, got 4 slots for interfaces instead of 3?

I'm moving to the 828 because it won't rely on a PCI slot.. which i have precious few.. and sadly as BIG as the G5 tower is.. seriously.. it has less PCI slots than my Quicksilver.. go figure.

[bayswater]

I used a 828 Mk3 and a 2408 Mk2 on my G5 for many years without problems, other than timing on the ADAT channels. Channel 7 or 8 went out by one or two samples every few minutes. In the end, the 2408 was the more stable of the two. The 828 started having problems with heat, and although it was newer, I liked the sound of the 2408 more. If the converters were the same, the front and back end analog sections were not.

[part12studios]

interesting. was the 2408 mk2 on a 424 or a 324? would that even make a difference? I'm thinking not.. but curious..

i see something on the 424 saying "cuemix" dsp.. what's that about? the 324 doesn't have cuemix? what is special about cuemix?

what is it doing that i haven't done before with DP3 / 2408 / 324 or 828mk1?

[mikehalloran]

The 324 and 424 are incompatible with all G5s except the single core 1.6 or 1.8 with 4 RAM slots. MOTU had a trade-up discount for those with newer Macs and older cards. If you bought a new 2408 II after a certain date, the exchange for the 424x was no charge.

The dual-core G5 takes the 424x and it's backwards compatible as a replacement for the 324/424 in the G3, G4 & G5 single core. The 424e is needed for the quad-core G5s with PCIe slots and all Intel based Mac Pros through the 5.1.

[part12studios]

oh wow yea even better. when i recently got the G5, it came with the 828 (original) so I know those thankfully keep working.

So what is special about the 424 with it's cuemix chip? does the 324 lack this?

So I guess before I can make the final call I'm going to have to A/B/C the 828 original, 2408 mk2 and the

Does anyone know if the 828 original came out before or after the 2408 mk2?

[part12studios]

i couldn't find a distinct review of the 2408mk2 but I saw that the 828 original came out in 2001.. the original 2408 was 1999.. and the 2408mk3 came out in 2003.. so it seems reasonable to say that the 2408mk2 had to be very close to the 828 original..

i'll see if i can do some quick pepsi challenges with the 828 and 2408.. but i can't help but feel like they were cut of the same cloth..

The 2408mk2 supported all their existing 324 user base with a balanced step up from the 2408 original allowing users to expand from or replace their orginal 2408s
and continue to have more than 8 in/out.. while the 828 was convenient in that it didn't require a card, is capped at 8 in/out.. you can't get more than one 828 to work simultaneously. So I could see them saving in RnD cost making these two sister products be purposed for different markets and not cannibalizing the other's sales..

I just wish there was some way to validate that.. i suppose maybe i could open both of them up and look at chips on the motherboard.. i know the 828 had of sorts some kind of basic preamp while the 2408 didn't (other than basic volume controlled from software).. perhaps that might color the sound some?

[mikehalloran]

So what is special about the 424 with it's cuemix chip? does the 324 lack this?

Correct. In addition, the 424 allows four units to be connected instead of 3.

[part12studios]

gotcha, but what about the cuemix chip? does that bring something sonically superior to the 324? how so? takes load of CPU? does a better job summing the digital signals?

[HCMarkus]

gotcha, but what about the cuemix chip? does that bring something sonically superior to the 324? how so? takes load of CPU? does a better job summing the digital signals?

I don't think there is any difference with regard to the direct recoding of audio. CueMix was a hardware digital mixer that many (including me) used to set up latency-free monitor mixes, much like I use the 828es AVB Mixer today. It didn't impact the computer audio i/o. The AVB Mixer is much more flexible and powerful, with built in dynamics and EQ, but CuMix was (and is) a great tool, too.

I don't know about the earlier iterations, but the 828mkII and 2048mkII used the same converters. Back in the day, my rig consisted of a G4 Mac, a 2408mkIII connected digitally to two Yamaha 01Vs and a bunch of outboard gear. When it all went up in flames in October of 2003, I went in the box with a G5 Quad and 828mkII.

As Mike notes, there are two predominant flavors of 424... PCIx and PICe. I think there may have been an earlier third 424 version as well. The PCIe cards are still in high demand, as you have noted from the eBay asking price. Last time I checked, MOTU would still sell you one if you were a registered owner of a 2408 package.

[part12studios]

wow that's good to know. nope i'm not an original owner unfortunately of any of the fine MOTU hardware unfortunately so no luck there.

That said, I want to double check on what you said. the 2408mk2 and the 828mk2 have the same hardware.. however the 2408mk can only go up to 48khz.. while the 828mk2 can do 96khz.. so did they cripple the 2408mk2? that doesn't seem right

The 828 (original) firewire can only do 48khz as well, exact same specs as the 2408mk2

This is why i feel like it's sharing similar hardware. I'm going to open the boxes up tonight and inspect any chips on either to see if i can find some similar numbers or distinctly different stuff.

For science!

[bayswater]

The 324 and 424 are incompatible with all G5s except the single core 1.6 or 1.8 with 4 RAM slots. MOTU had a trade-up discount for those with newer Macs and older cards. If you bought a new 2408 II after a certain date, the exchange for the 424x was no charge.

My G5 Dual 2.0 (PowerMac 7,2) with PCI (Not PCI-X) slots took the 424 (not the 424x). I didn't know when I bought it that it wouldn't take the 324 that I had in the G4 AGP, but it was easy to get the 424 at the time. Anyway, I'm sure MOTU will be happy to identify exactly what is needed if they know the specific G5 model.