Digital Performer 5 is AWSOME!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Actually, it wasn't me having the problem, it was the Russian Pianist from Las Vegas, and I thought his classical piano-trained reflexes might not be optimized for computers. We lot have our own skills.

Being both a DP user for composing/sound design and a concert pianist, I can attest that they require VERY different sets of muscles, both in the hands and in the brain! At least in DP I can hit UNDO. In a concert, no such key exists on the piano. If there WERE one, I would imagine it would be an ejection seat on the piano bench.


BBBBOOOIIIIINNNGG!!!!

[Shooshie]

(Primarily in response to one of Shooshie's posts...)

Ariel...It's got to be the same guy...

I always wondered what became of Ariel...he lived for a year or so in Houston and his girlfriend (?) was his manager. I recall doing a recording of him for booking purposes, etc.

I was engineering/producing at Soundmasters Studio and we hosted a Mitsubishi digital 2 track digital seminar for other area recording studios and actually booked Ariel to come in and play some wide pianistic dynamic material so Mitsubishi could demonstrate the lack of tape hiss (obviously) at very low signal levels with their 2 track recorder.

This was probably 20+ years ago, but I remember the Mitsubishi rep pulling a CD out of his shirt pocket and very seriously saying something like "Gentlemen...this is the future of recording".

I also remember that to encourage studio owners to switch to this 2 track digital machine was that (you had to wear gloves) you could actually still use a razor blade for analog type editing!...how far we've come...how far we still have to go!

Anyway, sorry to be a little OT, and Shoosh, please tell Ariel "Hi!"

=bz=

Will do, Buzz, and I'll relay it to Margaret, too, whose amazing beauty I would guess you remember far more than even Ariel's playing! She was... one of a kind. I still have a copy of the tape you guys made, too. Ariel has grown monstrously as a pianist since those days, and you'll remember he was pretty amazing then, which would have been... about 1985.

Shooshie

[pcm]

I would like to clarify my point before I annoy more people.

I have two Pro Tools HD systems, and they never crash. By never, I mean I have yet to experience my first crash. I don't know about you, but I'm impressed.

I also run DP on both of these machines, and it crashes at least once a day, more likely several times per session. The difference as I see it is Digidesign tested the hell out of it, and told it's users what to use, and what not to use. They GUARANTEE performance if you stick to their specs. Now my motu systems have no such stability, likely in part because aside from the "minimum requirements" list, there ARE no guidelines. Some of you have trouble free performance, some not. Why? Who knows. But I have been using DP for six or seven years now, on more machines and OS versions than I can count, and stability (for me) has been the exception. Why? Who knows.... And that's my very point.

Someone a few posts back suggested that motu tell us what machine(s) they are testing on, so that we can have the option of doing the same. Well, that's what digi does. Good policy, I think. For the people who must have issue-free performance, some strict guidelines would be helpful.

This is the upgrade I'd like to see in DP5. Real stability, and guidelines on how to achieve that. Barring that, then when the intel code version gets released. Code optimization and reliability. Job #1, and long overdue.

[waterstrum]

pcm, you make a good point.

I wish MOTU would be up to professional standards and tell us what bugs are being addressed in the .1 versions.
They are clearly fixing something, and better communication with the users would be great.

That being said, if DP is crashing "at least once a day, more likely several times per session" for you, I'm wondering if something is wrong with your system.

I've gone about 4 months without a crash and I'm beating DP pretty hard.
I've also been working in a really expensive room with PTHD and it has crashed daily.
The tech guy is freaked and says they have followed all the guidelines.

I'm thinking there is some voodoo in this.

I'm glad PT is working well for you, but DP can work very well too.

[kassonica]

Hi all

I just completed an album using DP 4.52 1.25 Gig powerbook with a gig of ram. We spent something like 300+ hours recording and mixing on it and guess what, it did not crash once. On one track we had 34 tracks (48/24) and about 20 plugs and it was fine. Now I take very very good care of my mac and I rarely have a problem with it.
I have have just started using 4.61 as I found 4.6 unstable and after a week in, no probs. I believe computers and software need lots of tender loving care which is a pain and we shouldn't have to do it in the 21st cent but hey I have access now to a studio I only could of dreamt of 6 years ago so despite the limitations I'm pretty happy what I can do.

Cheers all

Kassonica

two-states.com

P.S I'm also very happy with this forum it has helped where the manual never could . How about a Manual optimizing with DP5

[artfarm1]

I agree in that DP can be extremely 'crash-proof' if you use Disk Utility, repair permissions, use Disk Warrior regulary, get rid of Widgets and other useless non-musical stuff, and really clean the computer all the time. Like at least once a week, especially if you use the same computer for non-musical tasks.

I'm using a Dual 867 with 2 gigs of ram, and the only it crashes is when I do something stupid.....like ask it to do a new task while it's rendering some intensive background file....which is pushing my 'old' Mac.....but I've been running Mach 5, Stylus RMX and lots of audio tracks without a crash.

I have to mixdown some pretty final tracks in order to add more or 'Freeze' some things sometimes, but I agree that DP does work great.

It's really pretty amazing, when you think of what MOTU has given us.

[richardein]

Two things:

1. Anyone know whether there is a node distribution feature to offload vi's in dp5?

2. Regarding DP4.61's stability. I have not had a single crash attributable to DP 4. Not one. In near-daily use. I have had crashes when DP was open but they were usually attributable to network snafus that caused crashes when DP was not open. I used to have crashes all the time when I was using older serial MIDI interfaces and a G4 port. But for at least a year, since I bought the mtp av usb (2 of them), I've had no problems.

Agreed that a system guaranteed to work seems reasonable, but not necessary, imho. I just haven't had that many problems with DP.

[TOD]

I have zero problems with 4.61 and look forward to the update.

[alexff]

I would like to add to the positivity in this thread, and say that by and large, DP has been (is)a good workhorse. Crashes are usually brought on by my stupidity more than anything.

Looking foward the DP update. I'm sure the synths will be useful, and folders a god send. I'm just happy we're getting a new version!!

All smiles here

[midilance]

How much will it cost?

If there is another 100+ upgrade.....

It's not going to go to 5.0 and not be a 100+ upgrade...
let's get realistic here. The question is will it be worth it

All of the stuff I saw at the NAMM demo is definitely worth $100 to me

[porieux]

With all due respect to all you good people who have a stable system, for me the DP4.X era with the nice big shiny blue manuals has been largely a waste.

See the 'Stuck MIDI Notes.....arrrrggghhh!' thread, which comes up at regular intervals in some form or another.

I have used DP mainly for MIDI for 15 years happily until 4.X, and use the latest hardware from Roland, Korg, Yamaha, and MOTU. We've been around the block and back with MOTU and Magic Dave, and they've been helpful, but for me and others these critical bedrock issues remain.

For me DP4 is like having a lot of great toppings on burnt toast- looks great but you can't eat it. If I can't depend on the MIDI, I can't get into all the exciting new features in the audio department.



My computer is really too slow to run Reason 3.0, etc., so I've been itching to upgrade a new Mac. I have a sinking feeling, however, that even with a super fast intel machine and DP 5.0 these MIDI problems haven't been addressed. Maybe the new rust red logo will help?

Believe me, I hate to post in the new DP5.0 thread and be a whining wet blanket, but I think that a significant percentage of the original core loyalists who work mainly in MIDI/hardware are going to start looking elsewhere if these basic stability issues aren't dealt with.

And unfortunately the only thing we can do is to squeak the wheel.

Tobor

iMac800/512, 10.2.8, EZQuest FW,828, MTPAV, VS2480, DIF-AT, S80, Triton, XP80, PSR530 etc. (3.1.1/9.2.2 if I have to)

If you are running DP4.6 on the set up on your sig maybe that is why it is running like burnt toast ......?

Although I think DP does need optimizing I think part of the problems people experience (including myself before I got a G5) is due to updating their big software apps (like DP) but not their mac. The latest updates (of anything) are always released with the next generation of macs in mind, not the last.

Here is the system req. straight from the unicorn's mouth:

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

- Digital Performer 4.6 has been fully tested and qualified for use with Mac OS X 10.3 or higher (Panther and Tiger).

- The minimum system required for Digital Performer 4.6 is a G4/500MHz with 512MB RAM.

- The recommended system required for Digital Performer 4.6 is a dual-processor G4 with 1GB of RAM or more.

I don't know about that. I have a dual 2.7 G5 and I get spikes and warning dialogs with just a few tracks, sometimes.

[porieux]

How about mouse responsibility (click speed and click frequency) as a variable in this issue? A related parameter to click frequency might be erroneous-double-clicking-where-a-single-click-is-required frequency.

and to answer the predictable "are you being funny" reply here, yes, it might be humorous, but i'm being serious about it too, because I think it may be true.

some people drive me nuts they way they click away at serious software as if it were an arcade shootout. Or click/drag when they think they are clicking. True, the software should be able to handle this, but when the program is as time-stamped as DP is, it may be an addressable issue.

You know: next to 'fine-tune audio in-out timing' you could have 'fine tune click-chaos quotient'. The software would adjust accordingly.

Okay, now I'm just being dumb. But seriously...

It really shouldn't matter what the user does, it should not be
possible to crash the software, period. Error dialogs? Of course,
but not crashing. That's always the developer's fault.
(spoken with my developer's hat on)

[Kubi]

Jeez, if I were MOTU, I'd look at this thread, go "F.. ALL OF YOU" and close up shop...

[homebilly]

well i beat the •••• out of my system composing film music. i use mach V with the .dat hack with 5 & 6 atmospheres and at least 1 trilogy as well as QT picture of all flavors and sizes and I NEVER CRASH. EVER!

i don't even repair permissions on a regular basis.


DP5 is really awsome in my opinion. that was my topic afterall !!!!

[James Steele]

I have felt the same way sometimes, kubi. Fortunately for us, MOTU folks are fairly thick-skinned. You simply must be in their industry. To be honest, the DP 5.0 upgrade was very impressive, and I'd pay the upgrade fee just for the track folders alone... that's how much I (and many others) have wanted that feature.

I'm eagerly awaiting 5.0... and kudos to MOTU for such an impressive upgrade.