Digital Performer 5 is AWSOME!

[Splinter]

I can't figure out what he is doing, and he can't figure out what I'm doing, but after 15 years of this, we have come to accept that DP has a soul, and that it chooses to work for me and crash for him.

Everyone has a different aura / energy field they radiate. My aura is a disaster, so I play it safe and stash the G5 in a room 30 feet away from me

Not to get spooky, but this is completely, 100%, scientifically proven to be true. Just proof that just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

[Splinter]

Well, I just got back from NAMM. I only now got to read this thread and I'm disappointed to find that I can always count on some people on the board to turn a thread about an amazing upgrade into a negative... It seems DP will never be fast enough, reliable enough, etc... MOTU just can't get any credit for doing anything right.

As for the DP 5.0 features... they're pretty impressive.

Thanks for the update James. Sounds great! I didn't mean to be a party pooper, I think we all come with our expectations and hope MOTU will do this and that and if it doesn't turn out our way we are disappointed. I'm sure if we were there we could have shared more in your excitement.

[sdfalk]

I'm hoping for some system optimizations and more stability as well,
but I admit to being very interested in the new editing tools.
Throwing in a batch of synths certainly helps keep them competitive
though.
I'd be curious to hear them.

[thracks]

...............
Probably, more that I can't remember... oh yeah, PCI Express confirmed and an annoucement as to time frame probably in next couple of weeks. DP 5.0 is supposed be out in first quarter 2006 and MacIntel support by 2nd quarter.

Any way, it looks like a tremendous upgrade and I'm really eager to get it.

This seems to be getting lost in all the noise here. We're being told by MOTU that we should see a UB version of DP within 5 Months! That's huge news. I spoke with Les, and he confirmed what most of us assumed. They've been working on this since they got the Intel G5 developer machine. I'm still quite comfortable on my G5, but it's nice to know that when it comes time to upgrade MOTU will be ready.

[tommymandel]

Isn't it true that any time a software package gets upgraded, it undergoes optimization? Perhaps MOTU just isn't calling this a new feature.

[tommymandel]

How about mouse responsibility (click speed and click frequency) as a variable in this issue? A related parameter to click frequency might be erroneous-double-clicking-where-a-single-click-is-required frequency.

and to answer the predictable "are you being funny" reply here, yes, it might be humorous, but i'm being serious about it too, because I think it may be true.

some people drive me nuts they way they click away at serious software as if it were an arcade shootout. Or click/drag when they think they are clicking. True, the software should be able to handle this, but when the program is as time-stamped as DP is, it may be an addressable issue.

You know: next to 'fine-tune audio in-out timing' you could have 'fine tune click-chaos quotient'. The software would adjust accordingly.

Okay, now I'm just being dumb. But seriously...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

How about mouse responsibility (click speed and click frequency) as a variable in this issue? A related parameter to click frequency might be erroneous-double-clicking-where-a-single-click-is-required frequency.

and to answer the predictable "are you being funny" reply here, yes, it might be humorous, but i'm being serious about it too, because I think it may be true.

some people drive me nuts they way they click away at serious software as if it were an arcade shootout. Or click/drag when they think they are clicking. True, the software should be able to handle this, but when the program is as time-stamped as DP is, it may be an addressable issue.

You know: next to 'fine-tune audio in-out timing' you could have 'fine tune click-chaos quotient'. The software would adjust accordingly.

Okay, now I'm just being dumb. But seriously...

I think that is a neurological adjustment that should be possible in the users brain and eye-hand coordination center. I can set my mouse click/double-click behaviours in the OS Preferences and prefer they be the same across the board for ALL my programs.

That is not to say that I want all the buttons to be the same. My MX1000 laser moouse (Logitech) has 9 buttons (count 'em!). With USBOverdirve (shareware) I can program them to be very different tasks in each program (and do). But the timing on the buttons is controlled by the OS, so why should a program be called on to do it? No other programs I have do (and I suspect for the reasons I outlined above.)

So you MIGHT want to go to your preferences "Keyboard & Mouse" and set the repeat and double click rates you want.

BTW, most of the pros I know who are doing editing (sound and video) are usually under very tight deadlines and have learned to click, double-click, and drag at high speed quite effectively. The people who are dragging when they think they are clicking or double-clicking when they think they are sngle clicking (and visa-versa) probably only need a little more practice.

[Shooshie]

Granted, I push it very hard, but I need what I need. I don't do this as a hobby.

You see, here is the problem that makes it hard to be so absolute. You're not the only one in this forum who pushes it hard and uses it to make their living. Many of us do. I use it professionally in live shows, and it has worked flawlessly both backstage and in the wings with me conducting, for over 15 years of this. Never one failure, and that's been in some of the finest venues in the country with standing room only. It's a workhorse, a powerhouse, and as reliable as sunrise. Lights, music, MIDI Show Control... it always works. I've never once had to switch to my redundant system. We've had lightboard failure, lighting instrument failure, and numerous human-type glitches, but DP keeps the show moving right along.

Ok, that said, the reality is that in some conditions, doing certain operations, DP requires a certain balancing act to keep it going. Those times you take note not to click too soon here before it's done over there. Or not to open this plugin at all when that window is on the screen. The Trim plugin, for instance, used to have a nasty bug that would take a session right out. I forget the particulars, but I learned when it would not crash, and all was golden. (I use Trim a lot) Custom Consoles? Same deal. Save often. Reboot when crashes. But you learn how to get around it. Mainly by saving often. It seems to crash when it reaches a certain point in RAM. Duplicating objects beyond a certain point, without saving, will bring it down. And so it goes. You learn to dance around those things.

Ok... I totally agree, it should not crash when doing ANYTHING. But Pro Tools does likewise. I've seen people unable to get beyond a certain point. Digi tells them what to do, and they do it. Problem solved? Not really. Just learned.

A lot of people here are pros and wouldn't switch with a gun to their heads. DP still gets the job done for me. I know you'll say "I can't crash PT." Well, in the range of normal stuff, I can't crash DP. I know that I can go to Custom Consoles and fiddle long enough without saving, and it will probably crash. But I haven't even tested that in two releases. It might be fixed now. Otherwise, I haven't the foggiest how to get DP to crash. Don't be so quick to assume that because your guys crash it, DP isn't the greatest platform in the world. It works great for those who need it enough to learn its ways (just as you've learned the ways of PT), and when the job is done, it stands up to PT or Logic, Cakewalk, or any other.



Shooshie

[grimepoch]

One thing certainly that is very important, people are using DP for different things and different features. True as it may be that some people are stupid enough to think their CD drive is a drink holder, it's also naive to think that because someone is getting an issue and no one else is seeing it is going to be more than likely user error.

But, I think you were just letting off a bunch of steam.

Case in point with the MIDI timing, I don't use external sync for my MIDI, because I have no need for it. But, if Motu gives you this option, it should work. Better yet, it shouldn't stop working. It's not about intended uses, or other mailing lists, because it DID work before. If you release a new version that doesn't work for people, they can't use it. Sure, you can say that someone should figure out a work around, but it's frustrating. It's a waste of time. And worse, if it doesn't work, or everytime you click on something, it crashes, you can be stuck.

As I've said, my experience with DP has been amazing, it's taken a lot of the work out of using other programs. When I was PC based I did MIDI with Cakewalk and Audio with Samplitude cause each worked the best at the time. When I could do them both in one, wow, was I a happy camper.

All that said, sure, I'd love to see optimizations to the DP system, but I just don't really think we are going to see too much of it in the Power code, they are surely more worried about getting their performance up on the Intel binaries, where the future of their performance is going to be. Does this sit that well with me? No, not completely. But I say this, they've got to stay in the game. Good programmers are not some easily fillable commodity, especially when rewriting code, or maintenance fixing other people's code.

Saying DP needs a rewrite from the ground up is just a blanket statement of not understanding the problem. What if the problem they are experiencing is with CoreMIDI, in a way that CoreMIDI is not functioning properly in a way it should. Anyone who's done lengthy programmin with API sets is surely aware that the OS will and has tons of bugs in it. As AU authors about this. So what does Motu do in that situation? They can try and work with Apple, but I can tell you for the developers I've talked to that Apple hasn't always fixed the problem. In fact, there are some things that are still broken reported back long ago from what I understand. Up until not too long ago, not everything in the API was even implemented. You can say that another program works fine, but that doesn't mean Motu has not programmed correctly, it might mean they thought they fixed a problem a different way only to find out it still didn't work for a particular user.

What I cannot wait for is to get my MacBookPro and benchmark the CPU meter to my G5 dual 1.8, when the universal binaries come out. This has me very excited to see.

And if you all are so busy, how the hell do you have so much time to bitch about DP? (Yes, this was meant to be funny!) Hehe

[giles117]

I have to disagree with PCM the reason I despie Pro Tools is HD.

MANY MANY MANY crashes. Even on a simplified PT HD1 system. with minimal plugins


In my experience, DP is far more stable. Much more so than PT.

DP3 sucked as far as stability with 3rd party plugins....

DP 4.61 has been highly stable for me, no... leave the room... come back... and it's locked up issues.

I just recently did a PT HD session. 3 lock ups simply recording vocals......

SO PT being super stable is another fallacy....

[dpfan]

I was recently recording a huge session (a stravinsky's music) : choirs, voices... the dp session had more than 50 MIDI tracks and more than 40 stereo tracks with altiverbs, waves comp... it was a really complex recording but i really couldn't do it without DP and without crashing for weeks.
i'm working in 3 studios and all of them are with ProTools HD2, 192i/o and 96 i/o; and i have to say that ProTools is running more softly than in DP for huge sessions (>64 tracks with plugs...) the studios have dual G5 2GHZ
but still DP is a fantastic software. The only thing that i wish for the DP5 is an optimized version that will run great in a powerbook !!! I hope that the change to MacIntel will oblige Motu to rewrite DP.
Maybe 2006 will be a great year !
New MacBook Pro with DP5 that will run faster than in a dual G5 !!!!

[taggart]

I seem to remember a thread on here a while back about MOTU creating a totally "optimized" system on which to test their software before they release it and then letting us know exactly what that system is (or isn't). Great idea. It really is. But for better or worse, most of us use our computers for many other things. I can think of maybe three time DP has crashed on me since 3 point somthing-or-other. But who's to say that DP won't render my G4 unbootable after I download that cute picture of Natalie in that backless number at the Golden Globes? The variables are staggering! But I think with a little common sense and a little patience (deep breaths...me and Nat on a beach in the south of France) most of us can have a system to be proud of. Just my 2 shekels.

[kwiz]

I have to disagree with PCM the reason I despie Pro Tools is HD.

MANY MANY MANY crashes. Even on a simplified PT HD1 system. with minimal plugins


In my experience, DP is far more stable. Much more so than PT.

DP3 sucked as far as stability with 3rd party plugins....

DP 4.61 has been highly stable for me, no... leave the room... come back... and it's locked up issues.

I just recently did a PT HD session. 3 lock ups simply recording vocals......

SO PT being super stable is another fallacy....

I hear you giles117 but I've had a mixed bag of experience with HD.
A partner of mine has a HD1 system that has never crashed when I had to do sessions with it. But when working on a session with an HD2 system in Sony studios this past summer the damn thing crashed about 5 times in a 4 hour period. I wasn't engineering that session (thank god) but the engineer on that session knew his stuff but couldn't figure out what caused the crashes. Shooshie has a previous post regarding DP crashing on a pianist friend of his, but never crashes when he's working on the same rig as the pianist. Well the same thing happens to me when my manager comes to my place to listen to new material. For some reason DP will hang up or crash at least once when he's around. As soon as he leaves, all is fine. He claims that those sorts of things happen when he's in other studios as well. From a quantum physics standpoint I think that it might have to do with an individuals energy that they are emitting.
It/I might sound crazy, but it seems plausible IMHO.

[tommymandel]

So you MIGHT want to go to your preferences "Keyboard & Mouse" and set the repeat and double click rates you want.

BTW, most of the pros I know who are doing editing (sound and video) are usually under very tight deadlines and have learned to click, double-click, and drag at high speed quite effectively. The people who are dragging when they think they are clicking or double-clicking when they think they are sngle clicking (and visa-versa) probably only need a little more practice.

Actually, it wasn't me having the problem, it was the Russian Pianist from Las Vegas, and I thought his classical piano-trained reflexes might not be optimized for computers. We lot have our own skills.

[buzzsmith]

(Primarily in response to one of Shooshie's posts...)

Ariel...It's got to be the same guy...

I always wondered what became of Ariel...he lived for a year or so in Houston and his girlfriend (?) was his manager. I recall doing a recording of him for booking purposes, etc.

I was engineering/producing at Soundmasters Studio and we hosted a Mitsubishi digital 2 track digital seminar for other area recording studios and actually booked Ariel to come in and play some wide pianistic dynamic material so Mitsubishi could demonstrate the lack of tape hiss (obviously) at very low signal levels with their 2 track recorder.

This was probably 20+ years ago, but I remember the Mitsubishi rep pulling a CD out of his shirt pocket and very seriously saying something like "Gentlemen...this is the future of recording".

I also remember that to encourage studio owners to switch to this 2 track digital machine was that (you had to wear gloves) you could actually still use a razor blade for analog type editing!...how far we've come...how far we still have to go!

Anyway, sorry to be a little OT, and Shoosh, please tell Ariel "Hi!"

=bz=