MOTU M2/4

[macnylonguitar]

Meters on hardware are important....I think anyway, instant feedback of what is going on on the interface itself....

[Prime Mover]

About to pull the trigger on an M4, but I have just a few questions (that were probably already answered):

A) How well does this connect with a trashcan MacPro? The unit is USB-C only, but says that it's USB-A compliant. Kind of surprised that USB-A would be able to deliver the necessary power, but not completely unreasonable. I'm guessing that Thunderbolt2 -> USB-C is out of the question?

B) I remember the mk3 series of interfaces had the ability for CueMix to use built-in hardware effects on the direct pass through. These were different than inserts in DP, but on the unit itself. Just nice for adding a touch of reverb for vocal monitoring. Do the newest generation of interfaces have the same feature? Not a deal breaker.

[bayswater]

About to pull the trigger on an M4, but I have just a few questions (that were probably already answered):

A) How well does this connect with a trashcan MacPro? The unit is USB-C only, but says that it's USB-A compliant. Kind of surprised that USB-A would be able to deliver the necessary power, but not completely unreasonable. I'm guessing that Thunderbolt2 -> USB-C is out of the question?

B) I remember the mk3 series of interfaces had the ability for CueMix to use built-in hardware effects on the direct pass through. These were different than inserts in DP, but on the unit itself. Just nice for adding a touch of reverb for vocal monitoring. Do the newest generation of interfaces have the same feature? Not a deal breaker.

USB C is just a connector. The cable with the M4 connects it from the USB-C port on the M4 to the usual USB-A port on a computer and runs at USB 2.

Note, the M4 doesn't use Cuemix or have internal hardware effects.

[Prime Mover]

USB C is just a connector. The cable with the M4 connects it from the USB-C port on the M4 to the usual USB-A port on a computer and runs at USB 2.

Yes and no. For protocol, USB-C is just a connector, however it allows higher power output than USB-A can provide. I have another interface that when connected via USB-A requires a splitter to use TWO USB-A ports.

Note, the M4 doesn't use Cuemix or have internal hardware effects.

Hmmm, this is indeed a different arrangement than the 828 and 8pre that I have. Ideally, I like to use the "Direct Hardware Playthrough (zero latency)" option inside of DP. However, a front nob that mixes between direct/not is okay too.

The confusion is how to set it up so that I'm hearing other tracks playing through DP, but the live recording heard direct. In that case, would I set the mix nob to 50%, and set "Audio Patch Thru" to OFF? So that any time a track a track is armed, it doesn't play through DP but I hear it direct?

[bayswater]

Best to hope Stubbsonic can answer these latter questions: he has a M4. My expectation is that the M4, when I get one, will be a converter with low latency (see Mike's posts above) and that "monitoring from the mixer" is the practical solution. There are no hardware effects, so no associated complications associated with them.

On USB-C, have a look earlier in this thread for a reference to the pictures at Sweetwater. Regardless of the power issues, it looks like the expectation is that users will be connecting the M4 to USB Type A ports using the supplied USB-C to USB-A cable.

[mikehalloran]

On USB-C, have a look earlier in this thread for a reference to the pictures at Sweetwater. Regardless of the power issues, it looks like the expectation is that users will be connecting the M4 to USB Type A ports using the supplied USB-C to USB-A cable.

Something like that. Perhaps I'll use one of the USB-C ports on my iMac Pro. It doesn't matter how I connect it—the M4, like most of the others, uses Fast USB2, a subset of the protocol that gets around previous roadblocks.

Again, USB-C is just a port and has no protocol of its own. Although iMacs and current MacBooks support TB3 along with other protocols over USB-C, many older MBs do not including the low end MacBook that had no Thunderbolt at all.

I'm guessing that Thunderbolt2 -> USB-C is out of the question?

Correct. The Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter does not pass bus power at all. If you have an older MB like my wife's Air, it passes TB2 through the USB-C port but I don't know how much bus power it supports other than it doesn't put out as much as TB3 through that port as on later Macs.

This brings up another point. Although USB-C cables support 10G transfer speeds, they do not support Thunderbolt nor the high current bus power. TB3 cables do. This is one example where looks the same isn't. I wonder how many cables get returned to Amazon because of this? Same issue with TB2 cables working fine for MDP monitors but inexpensive MDP cables don't work for TB1/2.

The confusion is how to set it up so that I'm hearing other tracks playing through DP, but the live recording heard direct. In that case, would I set the mix nob to 50%, and set "Audio Patch Thru" to OFF? So that any time a track a track is armed, it doesn't play through DP but I hear it direct?

Yes. You can even monitor completely through the input if you want, latency is that low.

My new Mackie ProFXv3 is Class Compliant on the Mac so the round trip is slightly slower but it works the same way. Doing a recent voice over, I decided to play with this and left Audio Patch Thru set to On. I heard no delay in the full clockwise (input) but it was less immediate for lack of a better term—my brain knew it wasn't simultaneous even if I couldn't hear it—quite possible you'll like it after adding some reverb. Setting the Mix control to the 50% mark, I could hear the expected phase distortion which was far less than bouncing adjacent tracks on my old TASCAM R–R decks @ 15ips.

The MOTU drivers for Mac won't be that much faster than Class Compliant but…



Seriously, the Mackie is great and has builtin effects but even the little one too big for my desk (and I never track with reverb). The 12 channel version is my new remote recording interface with my MBP and kicks butt over my Zoom R24 except in overall weight.
https://mackie.com/products/profxv3-pro ... mixers-usb

[stubbsonic]

The only trouble I had getting the M4 to power on was while it was connected to my iPad. It would NOT power on when connected to the CCK even with the thru-charge connected. The only way to get it to work with the iPad was with a newer powered hub.

With my mid-2012 retina MBP, the M4 works while connected directly to any of the built-in USB-A ports. It also works fine when connected to a couple fairly recent powered hubs. One minor gripe is that occasionally, when waking from sleep, the MBP reverts to built-in (speaker) outputs. The M4 is not choosable. But if I power the M4 off and back on, it automatically resumes output functionality.

Confirmed, the M4 does not have any built-in effects.

[macnylonguitar]

Team,

I got my M4 yesterday, these things are backordered / popular, but found one in Los Angeles.

So far so good. Sturdy metal build and knobs are nice, not loose. Very simple but nice.

I wanted to do a hardware reverb type of line out / line in insert for "monitoring" reverb, but yes there is no Cuemix, no software routing, so I think it will just be in line and record the reverb... not what I want.

I suppose I'll setup a reverb aux bus monitor, two channels at 96 Khz or 192 Khz, with no / little latency, let's hope...

I do believe even the Focusrite's Scarlett line has software routing and Direct Monitoring...

M4 equals or surpasses the output sound level and quality of my prior box: Focusrite Clarett 8Pre Thunderbolt.

(note: it is a bit weird psychologically, when I first setup the M4 to my JBL 305 monitors, like how is the bus powered unit (no AC power) going to be that clear and loud comparatively, but it is)...

The meters are nice....

Will record this weekend and see what we get from the ESS Sabre 32 converters... that is the true test for me.

Also getting my 500 series mic preamps soon: Fredenstein Bento 6 lunchbox, and two channels of Cranborne Audio Camden 500s... spec wise they are equal / surpass Millennia HV-35s. We'll see. I will also be auditioning the HV-35s, Grace Design m501s, AEA RPQ, Neve 511s, etc, in the next month or.... Great mic preamps and mics, into this baby M4, will see how it goes....

[bayswater]

M4 equals or surpasses the output sound level and quality of my prior box: Focusrite Clarett 8Pre Thunderbolt.

This is the sort of thing I've been waiting to hear about. All the other stuff I can live with as long as it's reliable, although I'm a bit perplexed about why Macs would revert to internal speakers for output when class compliant configs. Presumably it won't do that with the MOTU driver in effect.

[mikehalloran]

Since I never let my Mac sleep—only the display—I don't expect to have that issue.

[stubbsonic]

Another observation:

When I set one input channel to MON, and then adjust the input monitor mix between input and playback, there a bit of clicking while adjusting. It sounds like the volume levels of both the input and playback are snapping to new values abruptly (as opposed to smooth analog fading). It is more noticeable with faster bigger moves.

I can't imagine a scenario where I'd need glitch-free fades between input and playback. So I don't think this is a particularly problematic design flaw.

[bayswater]

It sounds like the volume levels of both the input and playback are snapping to new values abruptly (as opposed to smooth analog fading). It is more noticeable with faster bigger moves.

In 40 years, someone will develop a plugin to simulate the non linear value snapping of the classic M4.

[braincloudsound]

Hi,

I recently purchased a 2019 iMac i9, and trying to get it to connect to a 1248 and 24ai via thunderbolt. I tried using a (non-Apple) USB-c to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, but the audio interfaces are not being recognized.

Does anyone use the Apple USB-c to Thunderbolt adapter successfully? It's $50, but if that's the only one that works, I'll buy it.

[stubbsonic]

In 40 years, someone will develop a plugin to simulate the non linear value snapping of the classic M4.

[mikehalloran]

Hi,

I recently purchased a 2019 iMac i9, and trying to get it to connect to a 1248 and 24ai via thunderbolt. I tried using a (non-Apple) USB-c to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, but the audio interfaces are not being recognized.

Does anyone use the Apple USB-c to Thunderbolt adapter successfully? It's $50, but if that's the only one that works, I'll buy it.

You should really begin another thread since this one is about a different product. Perhaps a Moderator can move your post and my response.

Does it work when you connect via USB? It should and the 24ai is USB only.

Otherwise, get the Apple TB2—TB3 adapter and make sure that your cable is a Thunderbolt cable. Per my earlier post, there are less expensive cables that look like TB but won't work. Mini DisplayPort (MDP) does not work in place of TB2 and USB-C cannot be substituted for TB3. Not certain you need Apple Certified TB cables — found my TB2 cable on eBay for a lot less and it works like a champ.

In my case, the TB2 unit is connected via a TB2 cable to the Apple adapter that plugs directly into my iMac Pro. Pretty certain I could have plugged the adapter into the TB2 unit and used a TB3 cable to my iMP but I wasn't finding a long enough TB3 cable under $80—yikes!